Z51 Constraint

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by jeskali

thanks for all the insight. i really wanted to buy this car and felt great about buying an american car after owning only german cars my whole life. if this does not get resolved by year end, it will end this quest and confirm a number of my fears about GM. this really sucks

I don't think your are being fair. When something sells better than was expected and there are shortages, you have to expect to wait longer to get it no matter what it is.

[laborsmith]

Originally Posted by gthal

PurpleRac3R.... I have no problem waiting. Patience is not my issue at all. My concern is GM is taking allocations from people if they don't remove the Z51. So, I have my order placed (since July) and when the dealer (small one) actually gets its allocation next month for my car, if the constraint is still there the choice is remove Z51 or the allocation goes to another dealer. If it was just a matter of waiting, I would have no problem at all.

Pulling allocations because people don't want to change the order is what is frustrating many people. If you are with a small dealer (like me), you may not be able to get another allocation for the foreseeable future... THAT is the sucky part.

P.S. This has happened to GM many times in the past. Although we can argue not to "blame" them given the complexity of the process, why haven't we seen similar issues from other manufacturers? When BMW launches the new M3/M4, I can pretty much guarantee they won't have supply issues. Don't get me wrong, LOVE this car and LOVE what GM has built... I just hope the constraint issues don't get in the way of people actually owning one. I will wait until May... if I can't get it by then I will buy something else because I don't want to miss the summer track season. I don't want to do that but GM may not make it possible not to... that's the sad part.

The allocations are not option related. The dealer gets an allocation and if it can not be used, either another dealer uses it or the number built is one less that week. After a while, one less here and one less there and we're talking about , , , well, you know what.

One could say let the dealer defer using the allocation but if too many are deferred then the plant has to cut back on numbers produced per hour and.or number of days scheduled for production or maybe go to production every other week. If that scenario is unfamiliar, you have not been following Corvette production over the last few years.

Chevy has already accepted enough Z51 optioned orders to last until December and is currently not accepting order with that option. In time that option will be available but likely will be on a limited constraint throughout the model year. I am saying this so readers have a chance to evaluate their priorities. I have been caught in the constraint limbo several times, it is frustrating and disenchanting. So far, I have been happy that I waited but I know some people can not wait.

This situation is particularly aggravating for many dealers and about one third of Chevy dealers will not put themselves through the wringer. If you want to blame somebody, blame the six or eight largest Corvette dealers who will swoop in and scoop up as many untaken allocations as they can.

But if you can not go to one of those dealers and can not wait on the chance your small dealer will not be able to order a Z51 optioned StingRay, there is your local Ferrari dealer whose waiting list for the high performance versions of a Ferrari rarely goes over two years and you can get your name on that list for a measly $50,000 deposit.

Laborsmith

[SilverRay]

Exactly right Laborsmith

[Herbe]

Originally Posted by laborsmith

The allocations are not option related. The dealer gets an allocation and if it can not be used, either another dealer uses it or the number built is one less that week. After a while, one less here and one less there and we're talking about , , , well, you know what.
...........

Here's my story

Placed order on 28Aug'13 - Order accepted and Order Number generated.

On 10/15 GM (eMail) stated "... Order has been placed by your dealer and accepted by Chevrolet ....... a TPW has not been established for this order..." i.e. Order status 2000

On 10/18 dealer eMailed me " Your order is ... in Status 1100."

So it appears that since Z51 was on constraint my dealer withdrew the order and used the allocation for a different order that did not have Z51.

So if, as I understand how allocations work, if some number of Z51 allocations become available to my dealer - my order will not get one because GM has not accepted the order.

Think I'll try to find another dealer who will handle it on a first come- first served" basis.

Yep I know that I'll be giving up the 50 days-a-waiting I have invested but it appears I have done so already. The dealer withdrew the order so I have lost all the time until he gets around to resubmitting it to GM.

And it's not a case of not using a allocation as my dealer sent me of list of all the C7s coming in and 30% are "sold" to the Marketing Manager and he did ask if I might want one of the "Stock" units he has coming in.

Herb

[laborsmith]

Herbe, it is a use it or lose it matter.

Until 3000, there is no guarantee an order will be built as submitted. Once at 3000 the order will be built as submitted even if it is a next model year build. (Yes, that has happened, rarely, but has.)

After 3000 it can not be changed. At 3000 in some cases it can be changed, but not easily and not always. Before 3000 it can be changed fairly easily.

Laborsmith

[1camaro70]

Remember how surprised GM/Chevy were in 2009 with the Camaro? 80% V8, and they couldn't figure out why? They build what the enthusiast wants and can't figure out why people want the ultimate versions, not the 120 day on the lot version.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by laborsmith

The allocations are not option related. The dealer gets an allocation and if it can not be used, either another dealer uses it or the number built is one less that week.
Laborsmith

Laborsmith,

If I understand you correctly, if a dealer that had an allocation today, but no buyer for it, would they not be willing to sell a non-Z51 at a discount from MSRP instead of giving up that allocation to another dealer?

How long do the dealers have their allocation for, one day?

[laborsmith]

I am not sure I understand your first question, but if I do the answer is yes. 99% (may not be accurate but you get the idea) of all orders are dealer stock. Having several hundred retail sold orders is not normal unless the vehicle is something like a Corvette or a heavy duty truck. You may have noticed the one thing both segments have in common is the extraordinary number of options and choices compared to most vehicle lines.

Every two weeks dealers are told the allocated numbers for each vehicle line and at this time they indicate which of each they will take. During this consensus period the use it or lose and redistribution of allocation takes place.

Every Thursday the dealers are told how many of the two week consensus they can actually order. They have until the following Tuesday to actually match allocation against order. Here is where it gets complicated: there is an overlap: the second half of consensus will be a Tuesday order while the next consensus is beginning. I have not yet figured out a way to explain it better.

Laborsmith

[jeskali]

Got this message from Dave Salvatore at Kerbeck this morning:

I wish I could say yes, but I really have no idea. We are hearing that the constraint may go from 10% (1 out of every 10 allowed to have Z51) to 40% soon but that 40% could be the rest of the year.

We have had a number of people switch from Z51 to non-Z51 because the only real reason they were taking the Z51 was for the wheels, but we are still very, very backed up.

Hopefully we'll have more information this Thursday, but I'm not expecting much.

Dave


----
Dave Salvatore
Corvette Manager

[Kochaloch]

Originally Posted by laborsmith

If you want to blame somebody, blame the six or eight largest Corvette dealers who will swoop in and scoop up as many untaken allocations as they can.

Sounds good to me, they're on my hate list now

It just sucks ordering in advance and seeing cars come in that were ordered by dealers and sold to someone who didn't even order ahead.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by laborsmith

I am not sure I understand your first question, but if I do the answer is yes. 99% (may not be accurate but you get the idea) of all orders are dealer stock. Having several hundred retail sold orders is not normal unless the vehicle is something like a Corvette or a heavy duty truck. You may have noticed the one thing both segments have in common is the extraordinary number of options and choices compared to most vehicle lines.

Every two weeks dealers are told the allocated numbers for each vehicle line and at this time they indicate which of each they will take. During this consensus period the use it or lose and redistribution of allocation takes place.

Every Thursday the dealers are told how many of the two week consensus they can actually order. They have until the following Tuesday to actually match allocation against order. Here is where it gets complicated: there is an overlap: the second half of consensus will be a Tuesday order while the next consensus is beginning. I have not yet figured out a way to explain it better.

Laborsmith

Thanks for the information. Your right, I was not clear that I was talking about buying (ordering) a "retail sold order", but you still answered my question, that dealers would most likely be willing to discount one of their own non-Z51 coming in as "dealer stock", but not for a retail order. Correct?

From what you wrote, it sounds like the process works like this. During the two week consensus period (which runs continually) the dealers are told what's available every Thursday. The first Thursday they are told how many and what Corvettes are being built and the second Thursday are told how many they can actually order after allocation was done.
The first Tuesday in the consensus period is where the dealer says what they want to order from the last consensus period results. The second Tuesday is used by the manufacture to finalize allocations from the dealers want list.

[laborsmith]

Originally Posted by Kochaloch

It just sucks ordering in advance and seeing cars come in that were ordered by dealers and sold to someone who didn't even order ahead.

I have definitely been there. The only way I know to be certain you are built/delivered first is to get VIN 0001. History shows that is just a mullion dollar surcharge.

Laborsmith

[laborsmith]

Highway 61: your handle revisited one of my favorite albums of all time.

Consensus covers two weeks and is not detail oriented. In other words, the dealer is told they may order six of a vehicle line over the following two weeks. Convertibles are considered to be their own line but an option (Z51) is not.

The dealer order submission process is a separate process that operates along side the consensus but on a weekly basis and is detail oriented, including colors, trims, and options. Here is my summary of how the process works:

DOSP begins on a Thursday and ends the following Tuesday, starts with dealers being told how many of what model can be ordered and what particular constraints apply, it involves several passes as the orders are matched against allocation than against constraints and ends with the dealer orders for each of the several vehicle lines being accepted.

During this every week process the two week consensus process is running. So one is a two week and the other is a one week process. It gives me a headache to try to describe it and I am totally sympathetic to those individuals who have to do this at each dealer across the whole country.

History tells us the Z51 option will be on limited constraint for the model year and likely intermittently for the StingRay C7 until the end of its production run. The individual elements that make up the option each have their own degree of complexity and one of them will likely be scarce at one time or another. I look at it like this: would I rather the package be available even in limited numbers or not be offered unless there are no limits?

I vote for the former. I would rather wait as long as it takes to get what I wanted if possible than not have it offered at all because of the possibility that customer deliveries might be limited.

Laborsmith

[Kochaloch]

Originally Posted by laborsmith

I would rather wait as long as it takes to get what I wanted if possible than not have it offered at all because of the possibility that customer deliveries might be limited.
Laborsmith

So you're saying if it stays limited constraint for the production year the allocations for Z51's would likely go to big corvette dealers and people who ordered at smaller dealers might get passed up each time never getting the opportunity to get a Z51?