Price gouging on 2010 Camaro already beginning!

[stovt001]

There are plenty of alternatives to filling your own car up with gas though (just as there are plenty of alternatives to buying a Camaro as soon as it comes out). Gas demand is relatively inelastic, but not completely inelastic.

[KILLER74Z28]

Originally Posted by makarovnik221

Lord, how I wish they taught basic economics in school! The first thing you geniuses need to realize is that there is no such thing as "Price Gouging." In a free enterprise economy, people pay what they feel something is worth. If people need gasoline and are willing to pay 5, 6 or 7 dollars a gallon, then that is what that commodity is worth to them. If I charged $10 a gallon for gas, and no one felt that it was worth it to them, no one would buy the gas and I'd have to lower my prices to a level that people thought was correct, or I wouldn't be in business very long. If someone wants to pay $25,000 more than MSRP, then that is his prerogative. That's why the $1500 my father paid in 1971 for a Toyota Corolla won't get me much today, because people have agreed to pay more over the years for their cars, because they feel the cars are worth it. Come on, people, learn some economics!

Oh how I wish people would before they post... :bangdesk:

price gouging

noun

pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

[Mr. Wyndham]

Price Gouging exists...and there is no excuse for it. I don't like to think about why people pay so much above MSRP, otherwise respected as what the car is worth (nevermind how much people feel it's worth...) because I go all cross-eyed, and develop slurred speech for a time.........
1-2k dollars, okay; maybe - But 20k+ over MSRP for a Challenger, c'mon!?!

And as for your Corolla statement....um, I could sworn that was due to inflation...you know - the decrease in relative value of the dollar, which in turn, drives up the prices of everything. But - if it's really true that we've all just decided to pay 10's of thousands of dollars more for a car over the years. I wanna see the agreement I signed, because I wouldn't have agreed to that - I'd love a new car for $1500!

I'm not trying to rip on you - maybe I just read your post wrong.

[stovt001]

Price gouging doesn't exist, because by definition there can be no alternative. Well there are many many many Chevy dealerships in the US (not the mention the world) and beyond that many many many many many competing products. So if people pay over MSRP, that is their choice, and if dealers accept that money, well why not? Mark ups over MSRP can exist only when demand exceeds supply. Under such a situation MSRP pricing does not provide a proper rationing mechanism. So the dealers must choose another rationing mechanism. They could do "first come, first serve" but then they are not making the full economic gain that the market allows. Very inefficient.

The other option is markups. So suppose there are 5000 people who are after 4000 cars at an MSRP of $30,000. 1000 of those customers are willing to pay $40,000. So they pay $40,000 and get the first 1000 Camaros. Now the dealer has 3000 cars at $40,000 but no customers willing to pay that price. So the dealer drops the price to $35,000. Now 2000 more customers are willing to pay that price to get cars. So now we're down to 1000 cars and no additional customers willing to pay that price. There are 2,000 customers who are willing to pay a lower price. 1000 of those customers are willing to pay $31,000. The other 1000 customers aren't willing to pay that price, so they go elsewhere. So the dealership gets rid of the last cars. The product has been rationed so demand perfectly matches supply. The dealer makes maximum profit, and no one paid more than they were willing.

So where's the problem? What's immoral about that? There is certainly nothing illegal or deceptive about it?

MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. It doesn't mean the fair price for the vehicle. It doesn't mean what the vehicle is worth. It is just a number provided as a guideline to start building market price off of. It is just the manufacturer's best guestimate of a price that will give dealers a decent profit and what the market as a whole is likely willing to pay for the car.

[KILLER74Z28]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Price gouging doesn't exist, because by definition there can be no alternative. Well there are many many many Chevy dealerships in the US (not the mention the world) and beyond that many many many many many competing products. So if people pay over MSRP, that is their choice, and if dealers accept that money, well why not? Mark ups over MSRP can exist only when demand exceeds supply. Under such a situation MSRP pricing does not provide a proper rationing mechanism. So the dealers must choose another rationing mechanism. They could do "first come, first serve" but then they are not making the full economic gain that the market allows. Very inefficient.

The other option is markups. So suppose there are 5000 people who are after 4000 cars at an MSRP of $30,000. 1000 of those customers are willing to pay $40,000. So they pay $40,000 and get the first 1000 Camaros. Now the dealer has 3000 cars at $40,000 but no customers willing to pay that price. So the dealer drops the price to $35,000. Now 2000 more customers are willing to pay that price to get cars. So now we're down to 1000 cars and no additional customers willing to pay that price. There are 2,000 customers who are willing to pay a lower price. 1000 of those customers are willing to pay $31,000. The other 1000 customers aren't willing to pay that price, so they go elsewhere. So the dealership gets rid of the last cars. The product has been rationed so demand perfectly matches supply. The dealer makes maximum profit, and no one paid more than they were willing.

So where's the problem? What's immoral about that? There is certainly nothing illegal or deceptive about it?

MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. It doesn't mean the fair price for the vehicle. It doesn't mean what the vehicle is worth. It is just a number provided as a guideline to start building market price off of. It is just the manufacturer's best guestimate of a price that will give dealers a decent profit and what the market as a whole is likely willing to pay for the car.

BLAH BLAH BLAH... We know, we know... In layman’s terms it's still price gouging. :raises hand: can I go to the bathroom now Professor stovt001???

[TAG UR IT]

^And if you've searched and searched and searched, but still can't find a dealer willing to sell at MSRP (Say all are 5K over MSRP)? Since we are going by definition, there would not be an alternative (to purchase at MSRP) and the dealers selling at thousands over MSRP would be "price gouging."

Could this be possible? I mean, could it?...that you possibly couldn't find a dealer selling at less than 5K over invoice?

This, FOR FACT, could be a possibility (not likely to happen, though). But, if it did....PRICE GOUGING.

Realistically, I see what you are saying (about selling them off in decreasing prices). But, if you wanted to get into GT500 and the sales guy said, "Fork over $50K...PLUS another 20K on top of that and it'll be yours!"...with that "I'm gonna screw you out of 20K because I can" smile. C'mon. You don't think this guy is screwing you? You don't think that's price gouging? Sure, you might have the 50K to pay MSRP, but ...you ain't gonna be getting into one of those!!! Don't recall anyone selling them at MSRP as an alternative.

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

^And if you've searched and searched and searched, but still can't find a dealer willing to sell at MSRP (Say all are 5K over MSRP)? Since we are going by definition, there would not be an alternative (to purchase at MSRP) and the dealers selling at thousands over MSRP would be "price gouging."

Could this be possible? I mean, could it?...that you possibly couldn't find a dealer selling at less than 5K over invoice?

This, FOR FACT, could be a possibility (not likely to happen, though). But, if it did....PRICE GOUGING.

Realistically, I see what you are saying (about selling them off in decreasing prices). But, if you wanted to get into GT500 and the sales guy said, "Fork over $50K...PLUS another 20K on top of that and it'll be yours!"...with that "I'm gonna screw you out of 20K because I can" smile. C'mon. You don't think this guy is screwing you? You don't think that's price gouging? Sure, you might have the 50K to pay MSRP, but ...you ain't gonna be getting into one of those!!! Don't recall anyone selling them at MSRP as an alternative.

His point though is you DON'T NEED a gt500, its a luxury item. You can go get a GT and replace the bottom end and throw on a blower and have the SAME thing for less $$. Your paying extra for the Shelby name.

That said, thats why the GT500 and the first year Challenger are limited production. It creates HIGH desirability with low supply which = high prices. We wont have that problem with the camaro so FEW if ANY dealers will be able to get away with large markups for more than 2-3 months (when supply over takes demand).

With the camaro, don't worry, chances are you wont have to pay a markup unless your first in line at your dealer and he's the type to squeeze that extra money. And I always chalk that up to the "I gotta be first" syndrome.

[bowtiedriver]

I was talking with my uncle about how I have to get this car and I am so excited. Well he tells me that it is going to be too expensive, he has a couple friends that went down to the local dealership and put their $1000 down payment on a $56k Camaro. I sure hope that's not going to be even close to the price for a V8(base model if more than 1). If so I am gonna ride my Saturn to 200k miles and drive off into the sunset. Somebody please tell me this is a crock.

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by bowtiedriver

Somebody please tell me this is a crock.

Its crock, the base v6 and base v8 will have to compete with the mustang price tag. That being said, i WONT say that a 56k camaro is imposible.. but it will be a special limited production. Not a normal mass produced version.

[Emher]

bowtiedriver, I panicked a bit like that a few weeks or so ago when I heard of a similar price at a dealer here in Sweden. But that was before I heard that it was being brought to Europe as a standard model here too. And before that I knew that it was being mass produced. So yeah, that price is probably what some limited editions are going to sell for, but also for those who NEED to be first with having one. I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that it's going to be down to about 28-30K for a base V8 pretty quickly.

[desertgoat]

Originally Posted by Tran

Some GM dealers have already begun auctioning the right to purchase the first 2009 Chevrolet Camaros on eBay. Currently, 'Buy It Now' prices sit between $20,000 and $25,000 (the amount the customer agrees to pay on top of the car's MSRP!!).

Back in May, some dealers began taking $1,000 deposits for the new Camaro. But, GM pressured the dealers to remove ads for down-payments, because production for the car had not yet been approved. However, following yesterday's official announcement that GM will build the Camaro, it seems the dealers are right back at it again.

I called my dealer this morning and he said that they dont have any information that i dont already know about the camaro. BUT he said there is no list for the camaro down here, he said that from what they told him is that its going to be a free for all so who ever and anyone can get one if thier money will allow them. He said that there will be a mark up he said around 2,000 to 5,000. He told me to call him towards the end of this year and he said that he was more than willing to work with me on prices and give me first dibs on picks seens how we wont have a list. He also said that the big boys will be around 40,000 for the SS and Z28's

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by desertgoat

I called my dealer this morning and he said that they dont have any information that i dont already know about the camaro. BUT he said there is no list for the camaro down here, he said that from what they told him is that its going to be a free for all so who ever and anyone can get one if thier money will allow them. He said that there will be a mark up he said around 2,000 to 5,000. He told me to call him towards the end of this year and he said that he was more than willing to work with me on prices and give me first dibs on picks seens how we wont have a list. He also said that the big boys will be around 40,000 for the SS and Z28's

First, welcome to the site!

Second, did he say they were going to mark them up 2-5K? If so, add that name of the dealer to the price gougers....name and address if you can. Seeing as though WE HATE dealers who gouge, we want EVERYONE we can, to know about thier "customer service."

[desertgoat]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

First, welcome to the site!

Second, did he say they were going to mark them up 2-5K? If so, add that name of the dealer to the price gougers....name and address if you can. Seeing as though WE HATE dealers who gouge, we want EVERYONE we can, to know about thier "customer service."

Thanks, good to be here

Ill do that.

[MattD]

I know a guy that leased his GT500 with the dealer markup added in. If I wanted one of those cars I would be waiting at the dealership when it is turned in because it will probably sell for high 20's.