[DDoug]

Wow! This thread got way off track. I just like to consider possibilities, not troll, lol.

IDK if AWD is all that popular on sedans, so in a coupe I can see them being even less popular. I was looking at Chrysler 300S's today. 5.7 Hemi and AWD, sticker is around $40k ($20k less than the Audi the weirdo mentioned) and there is a $5K rebate also on '14's, so 25%-30% off is easily attainable.

But, since there are quite a few available, they don't seem to be too popular equipped this way.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Camaro has been the best selling sports car in the U.S. since its return and Chevy the best selling sports car brand. Guess that is the result of losing sales.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/01...-year-end.html

Do you remember the days when it took 2, yes two assembly plants to build all the Camaros and Firebirds? 400,000 per year back in the day. Now a paltry near niche volume of 100,000 and sharing a plant with Cadillac. It is not a big seller.

Originally Posted by 90503

An AWD Camaro....hmmmm.....I think not, hope not....Plenty of other AWD cars out there....might as well just buy an Audi or something....

Rear wheel drive, American V-8, 2 door sports coupe...That's a Camaro...

GM sells plenty of 4WD trucks if you need to drive in the snow or whatever.

Just to be clear, I think the volume of those V8 Camaros is only about half. So what do you consider the V6 buyer?

Originally Posted by DDoug

Wow! This thread got way off track. I just like to consider possibilities, not troll, lol.

IDK if AWD is all that popular on sedans, so in a coupe I can see them being even less popular. I was looking at Chrysler 300S's today. 5.7 Hemi and AWD, sticker is around $40k ($20k less than the Audi the weirdo mentioned) and there is a $5K rebate also on '14's, so 25%-30% off is easily attainable.

But, since there are quite a few available, they don't seem to be too popular equipped this way.

Hey, who are you calling a "weirdo"? I use Audi as a comparison all the time.




So for me, I have been suggesting the Camaro take on a "higher" competitive set.

Is it ok for the Corvette to shoot for Porsche? They do and try hard at it and have finally got there.

For me, I think GM needs to look at BMW and Audi as "up top" competitors. You can get a Full Time AWD in the Audi A5/S5 and X-drive in the BMW 4 series. Both are performance/sporty coupes and yes they can both push $50,000 or more depending on trim levels.

What I want and have said all along is a Gen 6 car that, except for warranty and materials, goes up against these cars and wins. I want the V6 Camaro to be a competitor for the Audi A5. No for the price you won't get Audi refinement, fit and finish and materials. But you should expect everything else from the 6th Gen or GM will have failed. Stop competing with the Mustang and Challenger. Go big, GM. GO BIG!!!!

[90503]

Yeah, I think the v-6 sells about 2-1 over v8s...whatever...lol...


BTW #3 , hope you got to see the Barret-Jackson auction....2016 Cadillac cts-V just sold ....vin 001....170K...Pretty awesome car....

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 90503

Yeah, I think the v-6 sells about 2-1 over v8s...whatever...lol...


BTW #3 , hope you got to see the Barret-Jackson auction....2016 Cadillac cts-V just sold ....vin 001....170K...Pretty awesome car....

Did you see the Cadillac LMP? I saw it in a promo shot, but didn't see it sold.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Did you see the Cadillac LMP? I saw it in a promo shot, but didn't see it sold.

Two of them go up tomorrow (Saturday)

...lot #5039 and #5040....

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Do you remember the days when it took 2, yes two assembly plants to build all the Camaros and Firebirds? 400,000 per year back in the day. Now a paltry near niche volume of 100,000 and sharing a plant with Cadillac. It is not a big seller.

Yes, I remember that. Ended around 87, IIRC. I also remember those previous generations offering mid level V8s (305) beneath the still attainable normal V8 (350).

Originally Posted by Number 3

So for me, I have been suggesting the Camaro take on a "higher" competitive set.

Is it ok for the Corvette to shoot for Porsche? They do and try hard at it and have finally got there.

For me, I think GM needs to look at BMW and Audi as "up top" competitors. You can get a Full Time AWD in the Audi A5/S5 and X-drive in the BMW 4 series. Both are performance/sporty coupes and yes they can both push $50,000 or more depending on trim levels.

What I want and have said all along is a Gen 6 car that, except for warranty and materials, goes up against these cars and wins. I want the V6 Camaro to be a competitor for the Audi A5. No for the price you won't get Audi refinement, fit and finish and materials. But you should expect everything else from the 6th Gen or GM will have failed. Stop competing with the Mustang and Challenger. Go big, GM. GO BIG!!!!

I agree with the premise here but I don't think going after them (A5/ 4 series) with AWD would not be needed. Benchmark them from a driving dynamic and performance standpoint.

Like with Corvette shooting for Porsche. They haven't added AWD to the Vette to do that and have succeeded, no need for Camaro do that either.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by DDoug

Wow! This thread got way off track. I just like to consider possibilities, not troll, lol.

IDK if AWD is all that popular on sedans, so in a coupe I can see them being even less popular. I was looking at Chrysler 300S's today. 5.7 Hemi and AWD, sticker is around $40k ($20k less than the Audi the weirdo mentioned) and there is a $5K rebate also on '14's, so 25%-30% off is easily attainable.

But, since there are quite a few available, they don't seem to be too popular equipped this way.

Well, all the chest thumping aside lol, I think AWD in these cars will be coming down the road. The real question is in what form? Cadillac has been doing it for some time now, however, not in the most powerful trims. I'm sure they would if they had access to to a system that would meet all of the engineering/market/pricing criteria.

There was alot of this AWD/DCT banter going on on a Corvette forum prior to the C7 reveal. Got real heated and a few got banned. The reality in the end was that Juechter came out and said that if they could do it, and meet all the criteria, they would have.

I am no engineer, but it seems to me that to compare putting in a high torque AWD system in a rear/mid engined Porsche and front engined RWD based car are two completely different animals. So, that's not really a good comparo.

Yes, the Mercedes and Audi cars have their offerings, but the question then comes down to, are these systems propietatry?, are they cost prohibitive to the demographic?, and will they actually enhance the performance of the car enough? These are the questions that only the engineers can answer fully.

But sure, if GM can make it fit, make work, keep it affordable in relation to the target market, and warranty it for 100K miles, why not?

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by RobC

Or, too bad you're broke or you could pick up the phone, make a wire transfer, and have one delivered to your heated garage in a few weeks.

It's funny to me the clowns posting trailer park humor had no idea this GM car and drivetrain even existed.

Net worth and self worth are two completely different things...sorry had to be said.

[DDoug]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Hey, who are you calling a "weirdo"? I use Audi as a comparison all the time.

So for me, I have been suggesting the Camaro take on a "higher" competitive set.

Is it ok for the Corvette to shoot for Porsche? They do and try hard at it and have finally got there.

For me, I think GM needs to look at BMW and Audi as "up top" competitors. You can get a Full Time AWD in the Audi A5/S5 and X-drive in the BMW 4 series. Both are performance/sporty coupes and yes they can both push $50,000 or more depending on trim levels.

What I want and have said all along is a Gen 6 car that, except for warranty and materials, goes up against these cars and wins. I want the V6 Camaro to be a competitor for the Audi A5. No for the price you won't get Audi refinement, fit and finish and materials. But you should expect everything else from the 6th Gen or GM will have failed. Stop competing with the Mustang and Challenger. Go big, GM. GO BIG!!!!

HAH!I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the suspended guy.

Heck, I did spend near the Audi price and I'm happy with my choice. It's a great GT car and I think it's nearest competitor is the M6 BMW conv. but, at $50k more and even worse depreciation than the ZL1, no thanks. I can drive my Camaro all day and not be tired or sore. I'm still just looking for more curves.

As for fit and finish, why not? Go check out the interior of the Jeep Cherokee (not the Grand Cherokee) or the new 200 (sorry, I work for Fiat Chrysler so I tend to look across the entire line more). These interiors are really nice! I was really surprised what's being done for around $30k. The leather is much nicer than on my 2005 Ram and, the seats are as comfortable and stylish as the 300s or Grand Cherokees. Nicer, more appealing dash layouts also.

It can be done!

[DDoug]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

There was alot of this AWD/DCT banter going on on a Corvette forum prior to the C7 reveal. Got real heated and a few got banned. The reality in the end was that Juechter came out and said that if they could do it, and meet all the criteria, they would have.

I've recently been looking at a AWD/DCT car lately but not sure if it's worth it, GT-R. I never thought I'd look at Japanese ... ever ... but they hold their resale so much better than our domestic cars. Six year old cars with 40,000 miles have lost less than $20k. My ZL1 has lost more than that in 18 months. If the depreciation was on par with a GT-R, upgrading to a Z/28 would have been about $15k. Instead, it would have been about $35k during the 20% discount. GT-Rs are going close to 20% off these days, also. It may not be the "fastest" car anymore, but it still gets used as the benchmark for what's out now. It's been announced that the next GT-R will be a hybrid. Current owners are curious/worried how this will affect modding. GT-R's are as easy to mod as our Camaros are but the hybrid tech. might change that.


I am no engineer, but it seems to me that to compare putting in a high torque AWD system in a rear/mid engined Porsche and front engined RWD based car are two completely different animals. So, that's not really a good comparo.

You don't have to. The Chrysler 300 can be had with a 375 hp Hemi and AWD. Or, maybe even more telling, the 470 hp SRT Grand Cherokee. If the car is designed from the get to be AWD it can be done.

Yes, the Mercedes and Audi cars have their offerings, but the question then comes down to, are these systems propietatry?, are they cost prohibitive to the demographic?, and will they actually enhance the performance of the car enough? These are the questions that only the engineers can answer fully.

These are the real questions that need to be considered. As far as patents, we all use the same suppliers so doubt it's not an issue.

But sure, if GM can make it fit, make work, keep it affordable in relation to the target market, and warranty it for 100K miles, why not?

Hate to say it but if Chrysler can do it anyone else can, too.

edit:I didn't want the whole thing italics!

[DenverTaco07]

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/el...ers-91475.html

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/el...ers-91475.html

Saw that yesterday. Here is the important quote.

However, there's a bit of a problem regarding the aforementioned cost-cutting solution. The previously mentioned publication had a chat with Cadillac CEO Johan de Nysschen earlier this month at the Detroit Auto Show. The chief exec is adamant that retrofitting an electric motor on GM’s existing RWD platforms isn’t doable in more than a single way.

de Nysschen declared that architectures must be designed from square one to house the electric motor, which suggests that the GM e-AWD will be employed by the next generation of Caddy models and General Motors-developed crossovers, starting with the soon-to-arrive 2016 Cadillac CT6 flagship sedan.

Based on that, e-AWD probably won't be on the Camaro until it moves to a second gen Alpha or Omega that has e-AWD built in from the start. 7th Gen Camaro at that point (most likely).

[High Magnitude]

Originally Posted by Number 3

My guess is it will be available in the V6 or lower displacement models. It would make it a better coupe and provide a competitive advantage over Mustangs.

But don't look for it to provide better performance. GMs AWD in cars is the same as the FWD/AWD SUVs. Good for snow.

Wouldn't it do better on cars with more hp because there would be more tire spin in the back if there was more hp?

[SPCBA]

Originally Posted by High Magnitude

Wouldn't it do better on cars with more hp because there would be more tire spin in the back if there was more hp?

Torque tends to break em and wear them out. They add expense and weight, neither is something I want in my pony car.

Funny thread, apparently people drive cars with little to no ground clearence in "real winters" funny flat landers