06-12-2023, 02:21 PM | #85 |
Camaro6 2016-2018
Drives: sometimes Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 18,451
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smh
i'm sure people in GM are wondering why the kick ass Camaro6 they built that won car of the year didn't sell more, as opposed to , "GM has betrayed us !" they built a great car, even if they were going with gas power going forward i'm not sure they could justify another one at the level that platform is selling.
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06-13-2023, 06:59 AM | #86 | |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,175
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As for cost? There will be 2 measures in the very near future. Will GM hold the sub $30,000 for the Equinox? And second, will they hold $39,000 for the Silverado EV Worktruck. Ford has already jacked the Lightning. I’ve seen multiple crossover graphs that showed when batteries take over in cost over ICE none were years ago so they aren’t really behind. But the EV naysayers are locked into today only. Todays technology, todays infrastructure. All are being worked on every day. Hyundai/Kia, BMW and a few others have abandoned ICE development. GM thus far has not. But they didn’t do it for politics they did because they see the future, not today. If you look into it, you will find the batteries that will go in vehicles 5 years from now don’t exist yet. It’s that dynamic. As for the Bolt and Bolt EUV (EUV is in consideration for my retirement mobile but mostly because used Corvettes are ridiculous or you get one that’s affordable but has 120,000 miles ), Mary hinted they might be back but on the Ultium platform. But you do make a great point. Today you can still get a decent car for $25,000. Spark and Cruise are gone so not sure a sub $20,000 even exists anymore. Maybe a cheap Hyundai? So it’s not so much EVs are expensive, but also it simply isn’t profitable to make cheap cars in the US. Time will tell how this plays out. Hydrogen still lurks in the background and IF we ever get cheap hydrogen the equation may shift. But just like today where fast charging require water cooled cable for the heat, hydrogen require 10,000 psi to store. Both a bit more daunting than sticking a fuel nozzle in a fuel neck and pumping gas for a few minutes. The hardest part is even at todays prices gasoline/diesel is super cheap, easy to store and transport. Nothing comes close for cost or convenience.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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06-13-2023, 07:46 AM | #87 |
Drives: 2023 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,048
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Bmw is still investing in ICE development. Some companies that originally said they were going to stop investing in ICE have backtracked because they see the writing on the wall in the near future (<15 years.). You physically cannot make as many electric cars as all these manufacturers are talking about developing due to actual raw material shortage. Toyota especially gets it.
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06-13-2023, 08:41 AM | #88 | |
Banned
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS1 1LE Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,595
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06-13-2023, 10:41 AM | #89 | |
Iron fist, lead foot
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,228
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An odd selection of examples you've chosen to attempt to make your point. I do believe that the Mustang II was quite the sales success, topping over 1.1M sales in its 5 year run. The C3 Corvette also sold rather well, it wasn't until the C4 where sales fell off.
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'03 SVT Cobra-SC4.6L V8 || modded with mods'n'stuff
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06-13-2023, 10:56 AM | #90 | |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...020b28ea&ei=14 Note 10 minute or less charging. And although you don't see it, so is GM. GM is currently launching ICE vehicles, and just invested in new Full Size Pickups and SUVs and GM still has a major play in hydrogen. https://www.gmhydrotec.com/product/p...otec/Home.html
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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06-13-2023, 11:45 AM | #91 | |
Banned
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS1 1LE Join Date: Feb 2017
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Who is buying a 1974-1982 'sports car' because they're great performers? The automobile malaise era was a direct result of government mandates and the oil crisis. The upcoming malaise era will be a direct result of government mandates and a self manufactured oil crisis. The difference is that although power may not drop like it did in the 80s, convenience and range will while prices will skyrocket. Eventually the pendulum will swing back. |
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06-13-2023, 01:47 PM | #92 | |
Iron fist, lead foot
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
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Oh, I agree with the bulk of what you're saying, just that the way you worded the original post; "Anyone want a Mustang II? How about a 205 horsepower 255 torque 1975 Corvette?. . .", made it seem as though the point you were making was that no one would want to purchase the equivalent of those lacklustre examples. People obviously did want them was all I was illuding to.
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'03 SVT Cobra-SC4.6L V8 || modded with mods'n'stuff
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06-14-2023, 09:58 AM | #93 |
Tooley
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I see an awful lot of pony cars (albeit, much more V6s than V8s) driving around on a daily basis to buy into the declining sales hype. Perhaps NEW sales have taken a dive, but I would relate that to situations like mine: I scoured the Southeast for a new 1LE and for the life of me could not find one that was 1: on the lot and not "in transit" or 2: priced way over MSRP due to "market value adjustments". I ended up buying a 2018 2SS 1LE with low miles, saved over 15K compared to new, and I'm perfectly fine with the 18.
I believe that dealerships kill the sales far surer than government regulations. Look up the price of a new Scat Pack
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2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE | Red Hot | PDR
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06-14-2023, 07:51 PM | #94 | |
Hot Camaro
Drives: '20 2SS Convertible 6MT Join Date: May 2020
Location: CT
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With the manufacturers reducing / eliminating production, the vehicles become more scarce. Low supply, high demand, and general "stupidity" on the part of the public to pay these dumb mark-ups is why the dealerships jack the prices so high. |
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06-27-2023, 10:21 AM | #95 | |
Too Many Great Choices
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
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06-27-2023, 11:29 AM | #96 | |
Don't tread on me
Drives: 23 Sierra X31, Past 2017 Fifty 2SS Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 848
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I don't mind EVs honestly if they'd just allow them to be produced harmoniously alongside ICE vehicles. Having a cheap EV for running around in or for 30-40 minute daily trips to save the mileage and wear on your main vehicle and save a few bucks, but to force them when we're clearly not even ready to handle it is just infuriating. And of course the "saving the planet" thing when the mines are worse for the environment along with all the private jets. If it were truly for the environment we'd be investing in hydrogen powered autos. |
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