Sister Car...

[stovt001]

Saturn does not have one car that doesn't compete with the rest of GM. It has no place in the hierarchy and needs to die if it wasn't for franchise laws. Saturn is only for people who'd rather be forced to pay an MSRP that is already much higher than its GM siblings for the "privilege" of not having to haggle. In other words, for people who don't quite understand "numbers" "math" and "money". Sorry, no offense meant to any Saturn fans, but the combination of badge engineering and feeding the myth that "no haggle" sales saves the consumer money really pushes my annoyance button.

Edit: Actually, the Astra doesn't compete with anything else really (as there isn't any other GM small hatch. The HHR is more of a small wagon.)

[dayvedayve]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Edit: Actually, the Astra doesn't compete with anything else really (as there isn't any other GM small hatch. The HHR is more of a small wagon.)

It is also the an "import" as it has been in many countries for years as Opel in Europe/Middle East/North Africa, Holden in Autralia/New Zealand, Vauxhall in Russia/Ukraine/South Africa, and Chevrolet in Latin America. Saturn basically is finally getting what has been available for years.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by MerF

But the Sky and the Solstice are not the same car are they? Are they even the same chassis or same price range? Doesn't seem like that's the same thing really.

The Sky and Solstice are the Same under the Skin.. EXACTLY....( but in 2009 the solstice will have a coupe, not available on the sky...for now) The differences in preferences to styling and base equipment. There are many things standard on the Sky that you have to pay extra for to get on the Solstice, Hense the difference in price... If you price a Solstice with the exact same equipment as a Sky then you will end up with around $100 dollar difference in MSRP.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Saturn does not have one car that doesn't compete with the rest of GM. It has no place in the hierarchy and needs to die if it wasn't for franchise laws. Saturn is only for people who'd rather be forced to pay an MSRP that is already much higher than its GM siblings for the "privilege" of not having to haggle. In other words, for people who don't quite understand "numbers" "math" and "money". Sorry, no offense meant to any Saturn fans, but the combination of badge engineering and feeding the myth that "no haggle" sales saves the consumer money really pushes my annoyance button.

Edit: Actually, the Astra doesn't compete with anything else really (as there isn't any other GM small hatch. The HHR is more of a small wagon.)

You need to know what you are talking about before making statements like you have. I have bought 6 vehicles at Saturn and No haggle pricing does not mean you have to pay MSRP. it only means the price that the dealer sets is the price you pay... it may be less than MSRP. Plus you CAN haggle over trade in price... and normally that is where your normal dealer will change the figures on the sales contract.
the price can come down but not in the expected manner...

Saturns generally have more standard equipment than their sister models...

How about the Pontiac Vibe, isn't it a small hatch?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

You need to know what you are talking about before making statements like you have. I have bought 6 vehicles at Saturn and No haggle pricing does not mean you have to pay MSRP. it only means the price that the dealer sets is the price you pay... it may be less than MSRP. Plus you CAN haggle over trade in price... and normally that is where your normal dealer will change the figures on the sales contract.
the price can come down but not in the expected manner...

Saturns generally have more standard equipment than their sister models...

How about the Toyota Matrix, isn't it a small hatch?

this is the one case where I want one GM brand to steal from another.

[OKC08SkyR/L]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Saturn does not have one car that doesn't compete with the rest of GM. It has no place in the hierarchy and needs to die if it wasn't for franchise laws. Saturn is only for people who'd rather be forced to pay an MSRP that is already much higher than its GM siblings for the "privilege" of not having to haggle. In other words, for people who don't quite understand "numbers" "math" and "money". Sorry, no offense meant to any Saturn fans, but the combination of badge engineering and feeding the myth that "no haggle" sales saves the consumer money really pushes my annoyance button.

Edit: Actually, the Astra doesn't compete with anything else really (as there isn't any other GM small hatch. The HHR is more of a small wagon.)

You are so full of it. The Saturn Sky has much better styling than the clown car Solstice.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

You need to know what you are talking about before making statements like you have. I have bought 6 vehicles at Saturn and No haggle pricing does not mean you have to pay MSRP. it only means the price that the dealer sets is the price you pay... it may be less than MSRP. Plus you CAN haggle over trade in price... and normally that is where your normal dealer will change the figures on the sales contract.
the price can come down but not in the expected manner...

Saturns generally have more standard equipment than their sister models...

How about the Pontiac Vibe, isn't it a small hatch?

I stand partially corrected on the Vibe, though as another poster pointed out, its really a rebadged Toyota. Make of that what you will.

No Saturn dealer I've gone to has set a lower price. It is just MSRP, take it or leave it. Haggling over the trade in price is an all-together different matter, as that is just hit-or-miss depending on the dealer. You're usually better off selling your old car yourself. Have you seen the value spread on trade-in cost versus dealer retail on used vehicles? Can't blame them though, the used car side has to cover their costs somehow. Anyway, I've equipped Saturn models and their sister cars equally, and the Saturn MSRP was higher. And given that every Saturn dealer I know charges MSRP, that's a high MSRP and no haggling the price down versus a low MSRP with the possibility to reduce that further.

Originally Posted by OKC08SkyR/L

You are so full of it. The Saturn Sky has much better styling than the clown car Solstice.

Feel free to disagree with me, but acting so hostile on your first post is not a good start around here. We tend to be pretty civil, and that kind of stuff just doesn't fly.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by OKC08SkyR/L

You are so full of it. The Saturn Sky has much better styling than the clown car Solstice.

Hey, Welcome to the site.

I'm sure you'll see that the norm here is constructive, at times heated, debate.

Looking forward to seeing you around the boards.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

this is the one case where I want one GM brand to steal from another.

Since the Saturn Astra is actually an Opel Astra (Actual Import), and the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe are made in a Joint venture plant in California, at least it used to be a joint venture when the Chevy Prism was made there. there is not much difference in my opinion...

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by stovt001

I stand partially corrected on the Vibe, though as another poster pointed out, its really a rebadged Toyota. Make of that what you will.

No Saturn dealer I've gone to has set a lower price. It is just MSRP, take it or leave it. Haggling over the trade in price is an all-together different matter, as that is just hit-or-miss depending on the dealer. You're usually better off selling your old car yourself. Have you seen the value spread on trade-in cost versus dealer retail on used vehicles? Can't blame them though, the used car side has to cover their costs somehow. Anyway, I've equipped Saturn models and their sister cars equally, and the Saturn MSRP was higher. And given that every Saturn dealer I know charges MSRP, that's a high MSRP and no haggling the price down versus a low MSRP with the possibility to reduce that further.


Feel free to disagree with me, but acting so hostile on your first post is not a good start around here. We tend to be pretty civil, and that kind of stuff just doesn't fly.

Evidently you know the wrong Saturn dealers..... but if you ask them what no haggle means I bet they do not say MSRP... Thats What the head of Saturn kept saying when dealers started selling Skys over MSRP.
If the dealer you deal with sells for MSRP then thats what you pay, as does everyone that buys from that dealer, so JOE gets the same deal as SAM and SAM gets the same deal as John... You never have to worry at saturn if your next door neighbor got a better deal on his Aura than you did... UNTIL GM comes out with incentives which Saturn now honors.

Plus the dealerships are usually much better to work with on any problems you may have than most GM dealerships... Customer service in my book is worth a little more money.

Trade ins aropund here the price of the trade comes off the MSRP and you pay the difference in Taxes not on the total sale price. So if you sell it outright to an individual you would have to get trade in plus what extra you would be paying in taxes just to break even. and to my experience works out to about the same and not worth the hassel of running ads and answering phone calls, and having to be available to show the car..etc..


EDIT :

Just to verify the No haggle policy I went to the Saturn website and talked to a rep.
Here is the conversation.

Randi: Hello Tim.
Guest: Hi Randi, I have a question about Saturns No Haggle policy
Randi: Sure.
Randi: How can I help you today?
Guest: No haggle does not mean you have to pay MSRP but what the dealership sets ad the price on the car, Righ?
Randi: We do have a No Hassle, No Haggle Philosophy. This means Saturn Retailers are up front about all elements of a vehicle’s price. No last minute add-ons or hidden charges. No Haggle means the Retailer should stick to whatever vehicle price it sets and communicate the price at which he intends to sell the vehicle. With this philosophy our goal is to ensure that the purchasing experience is as stress free and pleasant as possible.
Guest: So it does not mean it has to be MSRP?
Randi: You pay what the sticker price is on the window of the vehicle is what the policy means Tim.
Guest: does that include the dealer AMV stickers they sometimes add?
Randi: This includes whatever sticker you see on the vehicle - as long as they don't slap any stickers or prices on there after you selected the vehicle at the facility then this does not violate the policy.
Randi: Only if you select a vehicle and then the retailer says "oh I have another price or sticker that I want to add on" - that violates the policy.
Guest: Ok thanks, so the retailer actually sets the price of the Vehicle, but before you actually see the vehicle
Randi: Correct - pricing is to their discretion.
Guest: That is what I wanted to know
Guest: thanks
Randi: Welcome

Randi: Thank you again

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

I signed the online petition to bring back the Trans Am. It may have not done any good, but I tried.

[camaro&T/A]

Originally Posted by Jiu Jitsu Jon

I signed the online petition to bring back the Trans Am. It may have not done any good, but I tried.

where is that? link please!

[shank0668]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/B..._The_Trans_Am/

[chevydude26]

what bothers me is people saying ..."don't bring it back its dead"

if gm decides that its not econmically viable...and it will lose money...i can respect that...

but if elitists are just saying it should be dead just for the hell of it that bothers me

i don't see why in 4 or 5 yrs if the camaro is successful why it isn't viable to just throw a concept out there and gauge a reaction...although it really depends only if they can hit a homerun with it like they did with the design of the camaro

obviously you can't come out with it now and undermine the camaro at this point when we don't know if the market will support a mustang,camaro and challenger...back in the 90's it was just mustang and camaro/firebird in the pony segment

but if the market is showing growth in a few years in this area i can't see why at least a concept wouldn't be viable