03-18-2024, 09:57 PM | #29 | |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,562
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Quote:
Everyone here knows that King is a huge 'E' fan but it's apparently not as easy as he makes it seem.
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'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. |
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03-18-2024, 10:01 PM | #30 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 11,618
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KingLT1 nailed it as always. You will be blending no matter what simply because the E content at the pump varies, even if you use the same gas station every time.
You simply need to be aware of your fuel system's limits and careful with the E percentage, unless you beef up your fuel system to the point where it can deal with E85 or even E90 regardless of elevation and temperature (but that'll cost you $$$ and the gains from anything above E60-65 are minuscule, so these diminishing returns make the cost feel even more painful).
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2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune 1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18 3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18 3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18 4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18 4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18 5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18 |
03-19-2024, 06:29 AM | #31 | |
Drives: 2021 Red Hot ZL1 Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Gapplebees
Posts: 3,092
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03-19-2024, 08:30 AM | #32 | |
Snackbar Tuning
Drives: 2023 SGM ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,117
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Quote:
You shouldn't run any Ethanol until you have a way to monitor your ethanol % AND learn how to read datalogs PID's that tell you where you stand with the fuel system. I recommend the Fuel-It Bluetooth Ethanol reader to all my clients. It plugs right in the middle of the flex fuel harness and sends the content to an app on your phone via blue tooth. No need to install a gauge. Then make sure your rail pressure stay around 2900 PSI and your injectors pulsewidth in milliseconds stays under 6.0. And 6.0 is near the edge so if its 6.0 in warm weather, you're going to run out of fuel again in the winter. The safe way to go is aim for 5.5ms at peak torque and 5.2ms at redline which gives you room for colder weather. Then datalog in cold weather and make sure you can still handle the E content. If you do it right you will know what the car will handle safely. For example, a bolt on ZL1 with a low side can usually safely run E50 in the winter and E60 in the summer. Adjust for altitude or real real cold weather by adding or subtracting 5% ethanol. This long winded answer is why many shops don't feel like dealing with Ethanol Blends for the customers because MOST people don't take the effort to learn and monitor how to safely run Ethanol. If you really want to run full pump E and not worry, go with port injection. I used to not like the port offerings but they are getting better and now that I've tuned a few of these its pretty easy. There are a couple of things you can stumble on but once you learn them its easy. When DSX releases his port kit, I imagine its going to get even easier. I'm waiting for the DSX kit for my personal car but I really like the Too High PSI kit.
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03-19-2024, 08:50 AM | #33 | |
Drives: 2015 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Clinton Twp, Michigan
Posts: 249
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Quote:
You just need to spend money on the fuel system. Fore Triple and port injection at your power level. I would recommend E85 to any customer as long as they have the budget to upgrade the fuel system properly. |
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03-19-2024, 09:20 AM | #34 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,756
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Quote:
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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03-19-2024, 09:30 AM | #35 | |
Drives: 2021 Red Hot ZL1 Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Gapplebees
Posts: 3,092
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Quote:
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03-19-2024, 09:39 AM | #36 |
Drives: 2021 Red Hot ZL1 Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Gapplebees
Posts: 3,092
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I might be wrong, but I don't think there's any scenario where race gas would make more power because ethanol always has that added cylinder cooling effect.
Last edited by Z OH 6; 03-19-2024 at 09:57 AM. |
03-19-2024, 10:08 AM | #37 |
Drives: 2015 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Clinton Twp, Michigan
Posts: 249
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03-19-2024, 11:01 AM | #38 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,756
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Quote:
Thanks Mike. So for all intents and purposes on this platform sounds like staying with E is the way.
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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03-19-2024, 11:02 AM | #39 | ||||
Petro-sexual
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I'm completely advocating for them, but they have to be watched with filtered eyes. Quote:
There's no reason not to run E', as long as the car is set-up appropriately enough, and it is tuned correctly. If you are paying attention, you'll see who's contributing to this thread (among many others), and I'd consider going to them for calibration needs (PM me if you need more clarity). They can do this stuff without thinking about it. Get your aux' pump installed, and work with someone who knows what they're doing. As already stated - you might consider port injection (TooHighPSI is who I'd recommend, and who I use) for more fueling into the engine if you want to run full E' with what it looks like your new combination is. Spend once - cry once. Quote:
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JMHO.
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'20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs |
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03-19-2024, 11:06 AM | #40 | |
Petro-sexual
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'20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs |
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03-19-2024, 12:21 PM | #41 |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,562
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I haven't priced Fore Triple and port injection, but I have priced a BBFP, 65+ injectors, larger fuel lines, etc. to run E, and I can buy ~800 gals. of 100 oct. for that price (approximately). The only reason I haven't changed fuel systems is that I'm at the 9.00/150 mph roll cage limits.
__________________
'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. |
03-19-2024, 12:36 PM | #42 | |||
Snackbar Tuning
Drives: 2023 SGM ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,117
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Ethanol based fuels carry additional oxygen molecules as do some race fuels, but petrol based fuels will never have the cooling effect of alcohol based fuels. That is why the fastest cars, IE Funny Car Drag cars, run Nitromethane. The Nitro carries the extra oxygen so that you don't need to worry about displacing the air in the combustion chamber with fuel volume, and then the methane for cooling and knock resistance. I'm sure there is a much more complex way to word this by a much smarter person than myself.
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