Considering a 2LS? Read This First!

[Tajefe Couple]

Originally Posted by 911medic

***Important update regarding TapShift and Sport Mode: See the 04/06/2014 update below for more information.***

***NOTE: This post is not an attempt to belittle the 2LS or those who have chosen to purchase one. Please read the entire post before jumping to any conclusions.

When the 5th Gen Camaro was introduced for the 2010 model year, the base V6 trim was the “LS,” and the only model in that trim level was the 1LS. For low- to mid-$20K, buyers could get all the goodness of the new direct-injected V6 LLT powerplant—and the killer 5th Gen looks—without any frills to drive the price up.

In February of 2012 (late in the 2011 model year run), GM changed things up a bit. They split the LS trim level into two models, adding the 2LS to the 1LS. The 1LS remained virtually unchanged, becoming the base model equipped with a manual transmission.

The 2LS, however, is a bit of a different story. On the surface, the 2LS appears to be identical to the 1LS, except that it has an automatic transmission. This is essentially true, as the available options for either of the LS trims are otherwise identical.

However, there are a few other key differences between the 1LS and the 2LS that prospective buyers need to be aware of, and that neither GM nor their dealerships make clear. In fact, many salespeople likely aren’t even aware of these differences, and may tell buyers that the manual vs. auto is the ONLY difference between the two.

Heck, our own Camaro5 wiki doesn’t even make it clear. I have seen numerous posts from 2LS owners that were unaware of these other differences, and may have made different purchasing decisions had they known in advance. This post is an attempt to remedy that situation, and help Camaro5 continue to be the best resource for complete and accurate 5th Gen information.


So, here are the other key differences that your Chevy salesperson likely doesn’t know and won’t tell you about:

• The 2LS is geared differently than other V6 Camaros.
  
  The 1LS and all LT Camaros (auto or manual) come with a 3.27:1 axle ratio. The 2LS, however, has a 2.92:1 ratio.
  
  What does this mean and why would GM do this? Well, the why appears to be so they can have a Camaro that gets an EPA rated 30MPG highway, which they can advertise and which also helps their CAFE numbers. The taller 2.92:1 ratio means lower RPMs at highway speed, and the 2LS is the only Camaro (as of this writing) to get that 30MPG highway rating on its sticker. (As pointed out by RallySportRand in post #31 below, the 2011-2013 2LS also has a more aerodynamic lower grille than other V6 Camaros to help achieve that EPA rating.. However, RacnJsn95 saw that both 2014 LS models share the same lower grille design.)
  
  BUT…that same tall gearing also reduces performance a bit. The 2LS’ 0-60 time is 6.4 seconds, vs. 5.9 seconds for all of the other V6s. The 2LS’ quarter mile stats are 14.8 seconds @ 93MPH, whereas the LT autos are 14.4 @ 98MPH and the 1LS/LT manuals are 14.3 @ 98MPH.
  
  UPDATE (11/27/2013): It has also been discovered that the carrier in the 2LS differential is different than the automatic LT model carrier. Automatic LT owners can change their gears to an aftermarket 3.55 set, but these same aftermarket gears will not fit in the 2LS carrier. The carriers have different listed part numbers and prices. See this post by RacnJsn95.
  
  As you can see, there is a tradeoff involved here, which is fine, as long as buyers are aware of it going into their purchase. (The above gearing and performance numbers are published by Chevy, and are available here. Look on page 24, under the heading “Performance.”)
  
  
• The 2LS transmission does not have Sport Mode.
  
  The LT (and V8) Camaros with automatic transmission switch into Sport Mode when the shifter is moved into the “M” position (and the paddle shifters are not used). A letter “S” appears in the DIC and in the HUD (if equipped). In Sport Mode, shifts are firmer and quicker, and each gear is held longer into the RPM range before shifting.
  
  However, if you look at any owner’s manual for 2012 or newer Camaros (available here), in the section discussing the automatic transmission you will see references to “vehicles with any axle other than GW8” and “V6 models without Axle GW8.” In the 2012 manual, this section is on pages 9-30 to 9-36. The GW8 axle they’re referring to is the one that comes with the 2LS.
  
  Instead of Sport Mode, when shifted to “M” the 2LS goes into Electronic Range Select (ERS) Mode. ERS mode basically only allows the driver to choose the highest gear that the transmission will shift to. In ERS mode, the paddle shifters allow the driver to choose a particular “maximum gear,” which according to the owner’s manual is useful when towing a trailer (avoiding overdrive gears, which when towing can result in lots of “gear hunting”/unnecessary shifting) or descending a steep grade (engine braking).
  
  If you shift to “M” in a 2LS and don’t touch the paddles, the ERS sets a maximum gear, and the car drives within the range of 1st to whatever the max gear is, upshifting to the maximum gear and downshifting normally, unless the driver selects a different maximum gear via the paddles.
  
  NOTE: 2LS owners in the discussion that follows this post have stated that ERS either defaults to 4th or 6th for the maximum gear. This may be something that changed from model year to model year, similar to the ability to use TapShift when in "D." RacnJsn95 experimented with his '13 2LS and had this to say:
  
  
• The 2LS transmission does not have TapShift.
  
  The LT (and V8) Camaros with automatic transmission go into TapShift mode when the gear selector is in “M” and the paddles are used. 2012 and newer V6s (and all model year V8s) can briefly go into TapShift mode (for 10 seconds) if the paddles are used while in “D” (2010-11 V6s cannot). This allows the driver to have some manual shifting control, and can be fun to use.
  
  However, as described above, the 2LS goes into ERS Mode when in “M,” and all the paddles do is select the maximum gear that the transmission will automatically shift to. This is discussed in the same section of the owner’s manual mentioned above. When in ERS Mode, the DIC in the 2LS displays the maximum gear selected next to the letter "M," unlike tapshift mode which always displays the current gear the transmission is in.
  
  Update (02/03/2014): As posted here by RacnJsn95 (thanks again, Jason!), the lack of true TapShift in the 2LS also makes it very difficult to get a "clean" dyno run, as the car shifts during the course of the run.

Update (04/06/2014): C5 member BlackoutLFX, using HPTuners, has discovered that both Sport Mode and TapShift can be enabled on the 2LS (and appears to provide the same functionality as the LT models). See BlackoutLFX's thread here. This has since been verified by a couple of other 2LS owners as well. BlackoutLFX basically copied the settings for the LT models from several transmission-related tables that HP Tuners displays, which he shows in post #25 of that thread. This should allow proper dyno results on these cars as well. A few caveats:

• As with any tuning, this will void your powertrain warranty.
• While the functionality changes, allowing Sport Mode, the "S" indicating Sport Mode is not displayed in the DIC. This may require changing something in the Body Control Module (BCM). When using TapShift, however, the selected gear is displayed, just like the LTs.
• This does not completely transform a 2LS into an LT, as the differential gearing difference remains (2.92 vs. 3.27).

Caveats aside, this is great news for 2LS owners who are willing to tune their cars, and can help those who bought the 2LS without knowing or being told of the differences this post describes. Kudos, BlackoutLFX!!!

For those that don’t care about these differences and want a great looking base model Camaro that happens to get the best mileage of any current Camaro—probably any Camaro EVER—the 2LS is a great car. Just be aware that your salesperson is probably clueless about the uniqueness of the 2LS.

Hopefully this will reach those who are considering the 2LS, so that they may make an informed buying decision and avoid any buyer’s remorse.

I am attaching copies of the 2012 owner’s manual and the 2013 Camaro brochure referenced above, in case the links I posted are ever changed.

Just wanted to say thanks for the post. It helped me understand what I was buying before the purchase. When I got back and told the salesman the 2lt seemed to have better acceleration than the 2LS he didn't have a clue.

[Tajefe Couple]

Originally Posted by bigdcamaro

ive got a 2015 camaro v6 and i have stock gears and i was wondering what gear ratio would make it faster or accelerate faster?

You can also pit a smaller diameter tire on. Its like lowering your gear ratio and you will get more acceleration. Check out the link for the calculator.
http://www.4lo.com/calc/geartire.php
Or the formula is this-
New tire diameter divided by old tire diameter multiplied by gear ratio equals new gear ratio.
Good luck

[911medic]

Originally Posted by tajefe

Just wanted to say thanks for the post. It helped me understand what I was buying before the purchase. When I got back and told the salesman the 2lt seemed to have better acceleration than the 2LS he didn't have a clue.

You're welcome. Glad you found it useful.

[GEN-IV]

I purchased a 1LT over a 2LS after reading over this post. The higher numerical axle puts 6th gear at a usable RPM for the driving I do, thanks for a great comparison of the two packages!

[ir0nman11]

I'm not sure this applies to the 2014 2LS model? I use the paddles normally all the time, i.e. it shifts up with I hit + and down when i hit - regardless on what RPM range im at. Displays the M# (where # is whatever gear i'm in, 1-6). When I shift down the RPM bounces up as you would expect and I feel the car jerk. Likewise when shifting up the RPM goes lower like expected. The only thing is automatic i guess no clutch pedal needed and engine doesn't stall if you slow down less than 20mph and forget you're in 4th per say. But still acceleration in that case will be very slow unless I drop gears.

Btw, the car is all stock, i bought it with less than 40 miles on the dash. And also I have to go to M mode on pedestal to be able to use paddles.

[Tajefe Couple]

Originally Posted by ir0nman11

I'm not sure this applies to the 2014 2LS model? I use the paddles normally all the time, i.e. it shifts up with I hit + and down when i hit - regardless on what RPM range im at. Displays the M# (where # is whatever gear i'm in, 1-6). When I shift down the RPM bounces up as you would expect and I feel the car jerk. Likewise when shifting up the RPM goes lower like expected. The only thing is automatic i guess no clutch pedal needed and engine doesn't stall if you slow down less than 20mph and forget you're in 4th per say. But still acceleration in that case will be very slow unless I drop gears.

Btw, the car is all stock, i bought it with less than 40 miles on the dash. And also I have to go to M mode on pedestal to be able to use paddles.

Try to put the car in m3 and drive it. You will not need to shift the car it will shift up to third on it's own but will not go past third gear. Otherwise you would get a message when trying to shift into third from a dead stop it would not leave in third gear.You are only selecting the highest gear the car will shift into. You can try it with any gear what ever gear you select with the right paddle and displays on the dash the car will not shift past that gear.
Post 5 explains it well at the below link.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...s+paddle+shift

BlackoutLFX tuned his to paddle shift in post 25 link below.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340877

[911medic]

Originally Posted by GEN-IV

I purchased a 1LT over a 2LS after reading over this post. The higher numerical axle puts 6th gear at a usable RPM for the driving I do, thanks for a great comparison of the two packages!

You're welcome. This is exactly why I started this thread in the first place.

[911medic]

Originally Posted by tajefe

Post 5 explains it well at the below link.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...s+paddle+shift

LOL...that post is a quote from (and a link to) the first post in this thread.

[911medic]

Originally Posted by ir0nman11

I'm not sure this applies to the 2014 2LS model? I use the paddles normally all the time, i.e. it shifts up with I hit + and down when i hit - regardless on what RPM range im at. Displays the M# (where # is whatever gear i'm in, 1-6). When I shift down the RPM bounces up as you would expect and I feel the car jerk. Likewise when shifting up the RPM goes lower like expected. The only thing is automatic i guess no clutch pedal needed and engine doesn't stall if you slow down less than 20mph and forget you're in 4th per say. But still acceleration in that case will be very slow unless I drop gears.

Btw, the car is all stock, i bought it with less than 40 miles on the dash. And also I have to go to M mode on pedestal to be able to use paddles.

As has been discussed several times in this thread, the 2LS "ERS Mode" can mimic TapShift, depending on how and when you use the paddles. But, it is not the same.

Examples:
While stopped, move the shifter to M. The DIC should show "M1." Tap the paddle to upshift several times.

• A 2LS will show M2-M3-M4-M5-M6 as you tap the + paddle (while still stopped).
• An LT (with TapShift) will show M2, then "Shift Denied" with further taps.

While driving at highway speed (where it is safe to do this experiment), have the shifter in M. Hit the upshift (+) paddle until the DIC says "M6." Now slow to a stop without touching any paddles. Then accelerate again back to 55+ MPH, again without touching any paddles.

• A 2LS will still show M6 in the DIC as you slow down and stop, even though it is downshifting automatically. As you accelerate back to highway speed, it will upshift automatically, all the while still showing M6 in the DIC.
• An LT (with TapShift) will show M6-M5-M4-M3-M2-M1 as you slow to a stop. As you accelerate, it will stay in M1 and redline out unless you intervene by upshifting.

The DIC in the car with TapShift will always show the actual gear you're in, won't allow you to go above 2nd gear while stopped, and won't upshift automatically EVER when in TapShift mode. The DIC in the 2LS is showing you the top gear you are allowing the car to automatically shift to--NOT always the gear you're currently in, although it CAN be the gear you're currently in, which is where it gets confusing and can make you think you have TapShift.

[Tajefe Couple]

Originally Posted by 911medic

LOL...that post is a quote from (and a link to) the first post in this thread.

Lol I didn't think anyone was ever going to say anything about that.

[KILLA BEE]

Or just get it HP tuned and call it a day like I did. You have will Sportsmode and everything else..

[oreduks]

LOL I wondered what the "S" was for in my DIC when I put it in "M". Glad I read this.

THANKS

[oreduks]

Originally Posted by 911medic

It's all good, man. Chevy doesn't exactly make it easy for the consumer. Examples:

• The "2" trim level means something different for the LS models than the rest of the lineup.
• The SS is a model, and gets SS badging, whereas the RS is an appearance package, and on V6s, has RS badging in the same places as the SS badging on the V8. This leads to confusion with many people referring to their V6s as an RS (i.e., "I have an RS" when they mean, "I have a 2LT with the RS package"). Since you can get the RS package on the 1LT and 2LT (and the 1SS and 2SS), stating you have an "RS" doesn't really tell anyone your model.

Clear as mud, right?

Your correct. Mine is a 2LT/RS.

[sixtyseven]

RS ^^^ terminology lesson 101
Which I do agree with.

But yet
A SS model with a 1LE PACKAGE is often referred to as a 1LE. Go figure!
Plus it's not even badged as such by GM.