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Old 12-11-2017, 12:02 AM   #15
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Travis,

I have read many of your posts on the subject and appreciate your thought process. You obviously understand that being diplomatic and analytical is the only chance we'll get anywhere with this issue.

The fact is, the M6 can't be launched without falling flat on it's face. Simple as that. There has to be a happy medium between what we're dealing with and risking premature driveline failures. The current situation is ludicrous and extremely frustrating.

I love the manual transmission in all respects other than the launch "bogging" issue and the "phantom rev" issue. It's a shame, because I would think a simple update should be able to take care of both issues and make the M6 pretty much a perfect manual transmission. The question is whether it will happen.
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:50 AM   #16
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Launch issue.

Plus 1.
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Old 12-11-2017, 01:03 AM   #17
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There’s other parts to this that I’d like to quickly point out to see if they need to be added to the equation...
The manual is different from the automatic in a few respects. (I’m not going to go through them all just ones I see applicable)

1st-manuals have the hill assist feature which helps the inexperienced drivers take off on hills without rolling back into the vehicle behind them. Automatics do not. Is there anything programmed into the throttle response or throttle position that would affect launching on the drag strip?

Well crap, old timers set in and forgot the next item, lol.

Anyways, I will close with this last item and I don’t know if it has been addressed. Does anybody else’s manual take off from a stop without using the throttle? I mean in no way whatsoever?
Basically, I’m sitting at a stop and I just let clutch out slowly not even touching the gas until the clutch is fully engaged. You can do this in reverse as well. And on hills! I’ve never experienced this on any other car in my life. Maybe a tractor.
Anyways, if this is an option this might be the reason that the car boggs on takeoff. The torque mgt might be getting too much input from the throttle position at one time. It might be the explanation about why first gear feels so tall. It could also explain the difference in taking off each time and the car does not respond the same to your foot position. If that makes sense?
Thoughts?
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:32 AM   #18
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+1 Yes!

I’d like to ask Al to explain how the torque management works. How it is implemented in the car, drivetrain, etc., and how it interacts with the ECU and TCU. What is “always on” and what dynamic events trigger the spark timing pull.

What's the practical limit of the drive train at launch on the stock tires... how does one best initiate a 1st gear roll from a dead stop (normal driving) and based on the implementation of TM in the manual, what's the best recommendation for launching at the strip?

In the A10, is TM affected by the drive mode selection? We presume snow/ice dramatically limits the max torque for best case traction. But what about Tour, Sport and Track?
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:03 AM   #19
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+1 from another M6 owner Who would really like an explanation and ultimately a resolution.
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:50 AM   #20
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Plus 1, but I feel it must be stated that their is a known issue that many are experiencing. The issue seems to have been fixed in the 18 via software.
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:34 AM   #21
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+1 on this topic as well - I specifically opted out of buying a M6 because of the issues with the TM/launching. I don't necessarily track my car all the time, but its such a big issue that I wasn't willing to buy a manual

Mind you, I love manuals and would have preferred it. I'm happy with my A10, but still...
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:50 AM   #22
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+1 for all M6 owners.
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Old 12-11-2017, 09:18 AM   #23
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I'm wondering if the TC/LC algorithm is asymmetric in nature - quick to cut power but relatively slow to allow its return.

Some content moved to http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...1#post10006671


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Old 12-11-2017, 02:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I'm wondering if the TC/LC algorithm is asymmetric in nature - quick to cut power but relatively slow to allow its return.

Norm
Interesting.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:09 PM   #25
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Be careful of any "expectation" of the Launch Control.

there is no "system" (i.e. Torque management, Traction Control, etc) that controls how the clutch is engaged. That is up to the driver.

so if you have Traction Control enabled while attempting an aggressive launch, if the tires start to spin, the only option the "system" has is to cut power... i.e. feels like bog. I drive in "Competitive Mode" to avoid this Bog..... it is up to me if my tires spin or not.

If you have Traction Control off, then you as the driver can adjust engine power vs engaging the clutch (i.e. slipping the clutch) just the "right amount" to achieve maximum acceleration. Trying to achieve this with Traction Control enabled could be very frustrating I would think.

If the Camaro had a "Launch Control" that actually operated the Clutch FOR YOU, then I would blame the car.

jmho
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:22 PM   #26
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I'd like to ask that we keep this thread simply about your support (or non-support) for asking Al the question in the original post. (Suggestions for tweaking the wording of the question are also welcome.)

Further detailed discussion about launching is probably best placed into one of the launching discussion threads.
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498180
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10003905
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:21 PM   #27
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+1 it would be great to get some answers/resolution to the bogging issue.
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:27 PM   #28
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+1 for any insight, answers, or resolutions.
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