Multi-Use Muscle Cars

[PinHead]

In 2017 I was extremely excited to see the release of the ZL1 1LE. On paper I believed that the 1LE would have the same potential and multi-use race configurations, such as the 1969 ZL1, the 1969 Daytona or the 1970 Plymouth Superbird, (which some were released to compete in NASCAR but would also perform FACTORY UNRESTRICTED on the 1/4 Drags with a Manual Trans).

So I was envisioning that the M6 and A10 having a very little performance separation of no more than 3 Tenths in the 1/4 mile, with the 1LE being able to Challenge a Porsche GT Cup Car on the Road Track, (as I've seen a 2014 Z28 being a close second to the Porsche GT in SCCA and NASA TT's at less than 2/3's the cost). But now with the unresolved M6 BOG issue the performance is now lost.

I also was going to attempt to keep the 1LE factor and attempt a run in NHRA Stock Class.

But after seeing the vast diffreence in factory performance between the M6 and the A10 where the 1/4mi times are separated by almost 2 Seconds have me thinking twice, (as GM has now refused to correct the Bog issue and recent QC with aluminum corrosion is totally acceptable in a $70K+ Hi-Po Car.

So now my Dreams of having a TRUE Unrestricted GM Hi-PO ZL1 Manual is gone.

[HDRDTD]

So sell your ZL1 1LE and move on.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by PinHead

In 2017 I was extremely excited to see the release of the ZL1 1LE. On paper I believed that the 1LE would have the same potential and multi-use race configurations, such as the 1969 ZL1, the 1969 Daytona or the 1970 Plymouth Superbird, (which some were released to compete in NASCAR but would also perform FACTORY UNRESTRICTED on the 1/4 Drags with a Manual Trans).

So I was envisioning that the M6 and A10 having a very little performance separation of no more than 3 Tenths in the 1/4 mile, with the 1LE being able to Challenge a Porsche GT Cup Car on the Road Track, (as I've seen a 2014 Z28 being a close second to the Porsche GT in SCCA and NASA TT's at less than 2/3's the cost). But now with the unresolved M6 BOG issue the performance is now lost.

I also was going to attempt to keep the 1LE factor and attempt a run in NHRA Stock Class.

But after seeing the vast diffreence in factory performance between the M6 and the A10 where the 1/4mi times are separated by almost 2 Seconds have me thinking twice, (as GM has now refused to correct the Bog issue and recent QC with aluminum corrosion is totally acceptable in a $70K+ Hi-Po Car.

So now my Dreams of having a TRUE Unrestricted GM Hi-PO ZL1 Manual is gone.

The ZL1 bogging isn’t cool but... The 69 ZL1 was a drag car and the street versions of the Superbird and Daytona sucked at everything. ...and NHRA ZL1 1LE? That’s a misapplication of a precision instrument.

If you want to use the car for NHRA, could you tune out the torque management? Your warranty is gone anyway?

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The ZL1 bogging isn’t cool but... The 69 ZL1 was a drag car and the street versions of the Superbird and Daytona sucked at everything. ...and NHRA ZL1 1LE? That’s a misapplication of a precision instrument.

If you want to use the car for NHRA, could you tune out the torque management? Your warranty is gone anyway?

Nope Torque management on the M6 is not the issue. Been there, done that. I think whatever GM did here is to protect the M6 drive train and they do not want to comment on it. Edit: I take this back, thanks Ask AL. Although at least one tuner has claimed to have addressed the issue. But is it really in the tune?

I will say my full bolt-on M6 SS is a 1/4 mile veteran and the drive train is holding up great. Do I really want to flatbed home my Chevy for a couple of tenths? Been there done that.

And what is wrong with wanting your $70K chevy to run low 11s? But of course setting up a car for the road track does not make a good 1/4 mile car. 1LE SSes are slower in the 1/4 than every day SSes. Been there done that too.

[mlee]

I see more of a statement than an Ask Al question here and may move this to the ZL1 section.

However, I do get your point. I bought the ZL1 for both road track and drag strip. With the difference in times between transmissions it's now one or the other. Either get the A10 for drags or the ZLE for road track. I guess the best case for both is the A10 on the road track, but then you cant go all out with adjustable dampers, wider tires and aero.

Still looking for the best of both worlds.... (an A10, LT4 or LT5, 1LE)

[PinHead]

Originally Posted by mlee

Still looking for the best of both worlds.... (an A10, LT4 or LT5, 1LE)

+1

Agreed, if only the M6 could "Hard Launch" vs "Soft Launch/Bog."

I'd be willing to purchase a GM Performance Tune and/or waive the factory drivetrain warranty to have the M6 Bog fixed. It would only need the "Axle Half Shafts" upgraded.

[PinHead]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Nope Torque management on the M6 is not the issue. Been there, done that

And what is wrong with wanting your $70K chevy to run low 11s?

I've also been there.

I'm just disappointed with the incredible 1/4mi time separation between the M6 and A10, where traditionally a Manual Car should be at least 3/10ths FASTER, not >1 sec SLOWER

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by PinHead

I've also been there.

I'm just disappointed with the incredible 1/4mi time separation between the M6 and A10, where traditionally a Manual Car should be at least 3/10ths FASTER, not >1 sec SLOWER

About the only way that'll happen today is if they dial the clock back and deliberately make automatics worse.

Machines can shift gears faster than humans. More gear ratios keep engines in the powerband better. So why should anyone expect a manual to be faster than a modern 10 speed automatic today?

[h422694]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Machines can shift gears faster than humans. So why should anyone expect a manual to be faster than a modern 10 speed automatic today?

I agree. I think the C7 Z06 is an excellant example of your point.

[PinHead]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Machines can shift gears faster than humans. More gear ratios keep engines in the powerband better. So why should anyone expect a manual to be faster than a modern 10 speed automatic today?

No doubt, but the approx 15% Drivetrain HP loss is what I'm referring to, and trying to avoid with an A/T.

I'm not the greatest gear manipulator, but I've seen guys with a Close Ration Manual shift almost as fast as an A/T, (and if you've ever seen a Lenco shift you'd agree with me, but that's not apples to apples).

[h422694]

Originally Posted by PinHead

I'm not the greatest gear manipulator. (and if you've ever seen a Lenco shift you'd agree .

I know exactly what a Lenco is. I've crewed for a friend that had one. Comparing that, even in jest, id just plain stupid. Why not also complain that John Force's car has more HP than someting you can get from Chevy