Headers vs Headers

[GMTool]

Kind of seems like 304SS is a little overkill for an automotive exhaust system. Unless you regularly drive along wet sandy salty ocean beaches. Any grade of SS headers with ceramic coating are going to probably last as long as the car itself. My 2000 Silverado's OEM SS exhaust system is over 16 years old with 228K miles, with annual salty winters. It's all original and show no signs of needing replaced.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by GMTool

Kind of seems like 304SS is a little overkill for an automotive exhaust system. Unless you regularly drive along wet sandy salty ocean beaches. Any grade of SS headers with ceramic coating are going to probably last as long as the car itself. My 2000 Silverado's OEM SS exhaust system is over 16 years old with 228K miles, with annual salty winters. It's all original and show no signs of needing replaced.

Your right it is overkill.....your factory exhaust is 400 grade....it will rust but as you can see takes a long time to rust out.

[SoChrisB]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

304 l is popular in food grade applications. Virtually no rust on the welds because it'slower in carbon then 304. We are talking headers...not food grade applications so 304 is the most common grade used. They weld the same. ...both react to purging exactly the same. 304 stainless headers are very durable.

I agree, but if i had a choice of 304 stainless, I would pick 304L. The problem is some overseas stainless is inferior in quality, as is their welding.

[cc-rider]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

The problem is...

If you said company "X" is going to steal an American companies designs, make cheap Asian knock offs, then dump them at a 3rd the price through companies not one has ever heard of...pretty much anybody would say that is terrible, and not worth supporting.

Until it means you get headers for a 3rd the price?

I exclude Stainless Power from the conversation because that is something Stainless Works decided to do and controls. If they feel it helps their brand..I support it.

Another tired old argument. Hate to say it, but no company should be awarded some sort of patent protection for bending 4 tubes in a space that was defined by GM in the production of the Camaro. There is only so much space and so many ways you can bend and fit 4 tubes in there. There wasn't any rocket scientists figuring this out.

Stay with your "American made" argument. It's the only legitimate, honest, thruthful position that you have here. I'll say it again...Kooks headers are a super high quality product. They are not a bad option. They are in fact a GREAT option. Many people make the decision to pay more for them. I respect that decision. To be truthful, if Kooks were only 10%-25% more, I might have paid for them. But you have a hard time admitting the truth about the lower cost options. They have their place too. And what's really starting to get you guys chapped is that the quality has really come a long ways....and now they are basically equivalent quality at 1/3 the price.

And finally...I wish for once that one of you vendors would have enough courage to just come out and say it. You make more money on Kooks headers and that's why your pushing them. It's a legitimate argument. It's your business and you have a family to provide for and employees to pay for. Stop hiding behind ancillary smoke screens and trying to squash down people who choose another path.

[8balldeluxe]

Pass the dip brother

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by SoChrisB

I agree, but if i had a choice of 304 stainless, I would pick 304L. The problem is some overseas stainless is inferior in quality, as is their welding.

This is true ....im not even sure if anybody uses 304L for headers...its more expensive then 304. I've posted before about guys buying headers. When the get them to find a local welding company that fabricates anything stainless. Ask them if you could soak the headers in their mild acid bath solution. That they use to clean stuff they can't buff or polish. They might charge you a small fee but the headers come out looking awesome. The acid removes any impurities that are on the headers including burn marks from the welds. It's a mild solution that won't damage anything. That's shy it needs to sit overnight.

[Jason 98 TA]

Here's the deal. With the TSP system your buying a system designed in the USA but manufactured overseas. The quality is as good as anything you buy here as is the warranty. Your also getting the largest LS company in the world supporting you.

Option 1 Buy American
Pay $800
Americans have $800 you have no money and headers

Option 2 Buy TSP Headers
Pay$450. Americans make money, you have $350 left & headers.

In the end it all depends on which American you want to have money. If I were you I think you should be your favorite American. As a result you should save $350 and get a great product with supports from the largest LS shop in the world.

[cc-rider]

Good point. Some "American" is going to benefit from this as well... the boys at Speed Engineering....right down the UPS driver delivering it to my door. All Americans. And trust me...the $700 I saved by not over paying for headers will be used to buy other go-fast products. I've already spent 1 day later. I just bought some ID1000 injectors. But wait...they use Bosch sensors as a base for their product. So now I guess I'm supporting German's.

You see the argument here??? It just get ridiculous. Buying American is a personal decision. Some have more money to do this. Some operate on a tighter budget but love and enjoy modifying their car just as much as the guy with unlimited budget. Neither is "more American"

[MarylandSpeed]

Also, I don't think "American Made" Headers are as expensive as people make them out to be if you actually shop.

[GONIF]

I have the Stainless Power headers on my 14 1LE and the fit and finish was superb. I bought them from Maryland speed 2 months B4 I even had the car . Maryland Speed was running a deal I couldn't pass up . 2 years later the Stainless Power headers are still going strong with NO leaks or any adjustments /re tightening needed. Great product, great price . I would have bought American made if the price was right . Ended up with the Stainless Power headers and the CAI for the price of American headers alone . In the end I am very satisfied with my choice.

[Rusty35]

Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA

Here's the deal. With the TSP system your buying a system designed in the USA but manufactured overseas. The quality is as good as anything you buy here as is the warranty. Your also getting the largest LS company in the world supporting you.

Option 1 Buy American
Pay $800
Americans have $800 you have no money and headers

Option 2 Buy TSP Headers
Pay$450. Americans make money, you have $350 left & headers.

In the end it all depends on which American you want to have money. If I were you I think you should be your favorite American. As a result you should save $350 and get a great product with supports from the largest LS shop in the world.

Curious why TSP chose to have their headers manufactured overseas vs manufacturing in house?

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by cc-rider

Another tired old argument. Hate to say it, but no company should be awarded some sort of patent protection for bending 4 tubes in a space that was defined by GM in the production of the Camaro. There is only so much space and so many ways you can bend and fit 4 tubes in there. There wasn't any rocket scientists figuring this out.

Stay with your "American made" argument. It's the only legitimate, honest, thruthful position that you have here. I'll say it again...Kooks headers are a super high quality product. They are not a bad option. They are in fact a GREAT option. Many people make the decision to pay more for them. I respect that decision. To be truthful, if Kooks were only 10%-25% more, I might have paid for them. But you have a hard time admitting the truth about the lower cost options. They have their place too. And what's really starting to get you guys chapped is that the quality has really come a long ways....and now they are basically equivalent quality at 1/3 the price.

And finally...I wish for once that one of you vendors would have enough courage to just come out and say it. You make more money on Kooks headers and that's why your pushing them. It's a legitimate argument. It's your business and you have a family to provide for and employees to pay for. Stop hiding behind ancillary smoke screens and trying to squash down people who choose another path.

You make some great points.....nothing like vendors pushing expensive parts on people that in the end will buy what's best for them.It's been posted many times by members here have the so called lower end headers and have has zero problems. Please let people just buy what they want.....for eveybody dollar saved on headers people will spend it somewhere else....like food...gas...and maybe pay a little rent.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

You make some great points.....nothing like vendors pushing expensive parts on people that in the end will buy what's best for them.It's been posted many times by members here have the so called lower end headers and have has zero problems. Please let people just buy what they want.....for eveybody dollar saved on headers people will spend it somewhere else....like food...gas...and maybe pay a little rent.

It's not a matter of pushing expensive parts. We sell Stainless Power and even Pacesetter. We sell those companies because they have a reputation for doing what they do consistently well, and standing behind their parts.

That said, there is ZERO chance I am gonna buy a run of 50 knock off headers from some random Asian business man, and paste my name on them.

[FASTDIESEL]

Speed Engineering, $295.00.

One year, 20K miles.

Perfect.

Have never heard one complaint from ANYONE that has actually bought these headers.