[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Didn't GM plan to build the next Camaro on the CTS platform, before cancelling it? I thought I read that somewhere. Might have just been an internet rumor.

ATS, CTS, and Camaro (2016 - ??) are all on Alpha architecture and all built at Lansing Grand River.

[TomNoir]

they use the word remix - i dont believe ala carte would work at this point for them nor an additional v8 engine option. decontenting wherever possible to create a base V8 and V6 trims, possibly using the current LT base 7" screen, other ideas - no leather on steering wheel (beef is expensive), 2 manual seats, rear seat delete, 18 inch rims, all season tires - but LED LIGHTS included.

PLUS
a place for my sunglasses.
MINUS
a pound of plastic or 1.5" off the top of driver side unique dual humps dash.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

ATS, CTS, and Camaro (2016 - ??) are all on Alpha architecture and all built at Lansing Grand River.

Think he meant the Sigma platform back in the 2000's before the Camaro was killed.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Didn't GM plan to build the next Camaro on the CTS platform, before cancelling it? I thought I read that somewhere. Might have just been an internet rumor.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Think he meant the Sigma platform back in the 2000's before the Camaro was killed.

I think part of the other issue with the F-bodies is that part of the deal with the CAW to shut down the St. Therese assembly plant GM could not use the Camaro or Firebird name on any car built at any other plant for a certain number of years.

That could be wrong but I've heard that more than once.

[laborsmith]

Any other plant not located in Canada, for the three year period. After the time passed other forces came into play resulting in the agreement to resume using the Camaro name in a different plant located in Canada.

Laborsmith

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by fastball

I think part of the other issue with the F-bodies is that part of the deal with the CAW to shut down the St. Therese assembly plant GM could not use the Camaro or Firebird name on any car built at any other plant for a certain number of years.

That could be wrong but I've heard that more than once.

That is patently false.

****EDIT & ADDITION****

Had to think about how much detail I could get into without getting into trouble. I think this metaphor is appropriate....

If I decided I was never going to wear Nikes again and then agreed that if I changed my mind and decided to wear Nikes again, I would only buy them from Dick's Sporting Goods, would it be accurate to say that I don't wear Nikes because of my agreement with Dick's? It would not. I simply agreed with Dick's to not do what I already decided I wasn't going to do.

GM simply agreed to not build a car that they never intended on building. The idea of bringing the car back for 2010 was like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. When the F-body ended after 2002, the Zeta platform already existed in Australia but was not seen as a viable (pronounced pro-fit-able) alternative. After years of internal lobbying, topped off by awesome design work by Ed Welburne's team the pieces came together and the car was greenlighted for build in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada. When Gen 6 was developed on a different platform (Alpha) it was moved from Canada to Lansing.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That is patently false.

****EDIT & ADDITION****

Had to think about how much detail I could get into without getting into trouble. I think this metaphor is appropriate....

If I decided I was never going to wear Nikes again and then agreed that if I changed my mind and decided to wear Nikes again, I would only buy them from Dick's Sporting Goods, would it be accurate to say that I don't wear Nikes because of my agreement with Dick's? It would not. I simply agreed with Dick's to not do what I already decided I wasn't going to do.

GM simply agreed to not build a car that they never intended on building. The idea of bringing the car back for 2010 was like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. When the F-body ended after 2002, the Zeta platform already existed in Australia but was not seen as a viable (pronounced pro-fit-able) alternative. After years of internal lobbying, topped off by awesome design work by Ed Welburne's team the pieces came together and the car was greenlighted for build in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada. When Gen 6 was developed on a different platform (Alpha) it was moved from Canada to Lansing.

No offense, but I can't stand when people say "I can't tell you the truth so here's a bulls**t story"

Either give me the straight up facts or f it. If what I have heard is wrong explain it in plain English or don't bother. Agreeing not to build a car they never intended on building? WTF is that?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Think he meant the Sigma platform back in the 2000's before the Camaro was killed.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by fastball

No offense, but I can't stand when people say "I can't tell you the truth so here's a bulls**t story"

Either give me the straight up facts or f it. If what I have heard is wrong explain it in plain English or don't bother. Agreeing not to build a car they never intended on building? WTF is that?

That is exactly what it is. GM agreed to not build a car they never intended on building, unless they built it in Canada. Not sure what's not clear about that.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Didn't GM plan to build the next Camaro on the CTS platform, before cancelling it? I thought I read that somewhere. Might have just been an internet rumor.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Think he meant the Sigma platform back in the 2000's before the Camaro was killed.

Ok, I get that. Here's how things typically work. You have SUGGESTIONS, you have STUDIES, you have PROPOSALS, and you have PROJECT PROGRAMS.

Anybody can suggest anything. Sometimes a SUGGESTION has enough merit to launch a STUDY. Studies that have a decent business case might eventually become a PROPOSAL and are considered along with a bunch of other proposals, with the understanding that there is never enough money or manpower to implement all the proposals. So the better proposals win out and some of them become PROJECT PROGRAMS. To my knowledge, the idea of a Sigma Camaro was never a PROJECT PROGRAM, and I doubt it was ever even a STUDY. I'm sure it was probably SUGGESTED dozens of times.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Ok, I get that. Here's how things typically work. You have SUGGESTIONS, you have STUDIES, you have PROPOSALS, and you have PROJECT PROGRAMS.

Anybody can suggest anything. Sometimes a SUGGESTION has enough merit to launch a STUDY. Studies that have a decent business case might eventually become a PROPOSAL and are considered along with a bunch of other proposals, with the understanding that there is never enough money or manpower to implement all the proposals. So the better proposals win out and some of them become PROJECT PROGRAMS. To my knowledge, the idea of a Sigma Camaro was never a PROJECT PROGRAM, and I doubt it was ever even a STUDY. I'm sure it was probably SUGGESTED dozens of times.

Gawwwd I hope things have changed since the bankruptcy. This is red tape bureaucracy and bloated management of a gigantic corporation if I ever saw one.

They need to Lean Six Sigma that garbage. If they haven't done it already.

The time and money wasted on studies and proposals could be spent putting better quality, performance, and style into the final production car if it took half as long and half as many people.

Oye vay!!!!!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Ok, I get that. Here's how things typically work. You have SUGGESTIONS, you have STUDIES, you have PROPOSALS, and you have PROJECT PROGRAMS.

Anybody can suggest anything. Sometimes a SUGGESTION has enough merit to launch a STUDY. Studies that have a decent business case might eventually become a PROPOSAL and are considered along with a bunch of other proposals, with the understanding that there is never enough money or manpower to implement all the proposals. So the better proposals win out and some of them become PROJECT PROGRAMS. To my knowledge, the idea of a Sigma Camaro was never a PROJECT PROGRAM, and I doubt it was ever even a STUDY. I'm sure it was probably SUGGESTED dozens of times.

Funny because I remember walking into a conference room with tape drawings of the F-body replacement up on the wall. On the other wall was an equivalent layout of a Cadillac sedan that could come off of the same architecture. One made and one didn't.

Or I have a horrid memory.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Funny because I remember walking into a conference room with tape drawings of the F-body replacement up on the wall. On the other wall was an equivalent layout of a Cadillac sedan that could come off of the same architecture. One made and one didn't.

Or I have a horrid memory.

You could be right. There were also proposals for a Cadillac Zeta before there was a proposal for a Camaro Zeta. One of them made it, one didn't.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

You could be right. There were also proposals for a Cadillac Zeta before there was a proposal for a Camaro Zeta. One of them made it, one didn't.

GMX550 if I recall correctly (I was validation manager for that one) was after the Camaro. But it was approved and the program moved to Holden. It lived for 3 months and was killed with prejudice. The DeVille went dark and it was all ultimately replaced with the Epsilon based XTS.

But that is another story......Beta cough cough study cough