[MB1]

I like both cars. I've driven a Gen 6 SS extensively. Its a very good car for a good price. Lots of fun, great torque, good steering and handling. My E92 M3 drives (to me) in a more special way and the interior between the two again in my opinion is really no comparison. The quality of the M3 is substantially higher everywhere you look. The engine sounds unique and special at the press of the button and especially at 8,300 rpm. But the car MSRPd for almost $80K five years ago. Used purchase is where its at but the cost of maintenance is still pretty darn high. You have to LOVE the way it drives to make it worth it. I'd love if the Camaro's back seat was slightly larger like my M3 is, the (I know) visibility was similar and better than it is and the interior had less hard plastics and the nav wasn't angled and it didn't appear to be tacked on. Additionally the dealer network is also no comparison but again, you pay for that....heavily. That said, still considering a 1LE because I think overall, compromises included, its a phenomenal car especially for the money. Just my 2c.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by MB1

I like both cars. I've driven a Gen 6 SS extensively. Its a very good car for a good price. Lots of fun, great torque, good steering and handling. My E92 M3 drives (to me) in a more special way and the interior between the two again in my opinion is really no comparison. The quality of the M3 is substantially higher everywhere you look. The engine sounds unique and special at the press of the button and especially at 8,300 rpm. But the car MSRPd for almost $80K five years ago. Used purchase is where its at but the cost of maintenance is still pretty darn high. You have to LOVE the way it drives to make it worth it. I'd love if the Camaro's back seat was slightly larger like my M3 is, the (I know) visibility was similar and better than it is and the interior had less hard plastics and the nav wasn't angled and it didn't appear to be tacked on. Additionally the dealer network is also no comparison but again, you pay for that....heavily. That said, still considering a 1LE because I think overall, compromises included, its a phenomenal car especially for the money. Just my 2c.

Just a couple of comments on your post...

I agree on the engine sound of the E90/92, it was sublime!!! That car could have had a super quiet exhaust and it would still have sounded amazing. It is the best sounding motor I have ever had, so mechanical and satisfying. I averaged like 10MPG in that car because I spend a lot of time at 6K RPM's and up.

I just came out of a 2016 M3 with the standard leather and to me my 2SS 1LE's interior feels just as nice as the M3, just minus the few bits of carbon the M3 had. The standard M3 interior has plenty of plastic trim pieces. The interior is much quieter in the 1LE compared to the M3 as far as squeaks, rattles, etc. I purposely touched, pressed and moved every button in the Camaro before I bought one to see if things had improved since my C6 Z06, and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised.

[crankaholic]

Originally Posted by MB1

and the interior between the two again in my opinion is really no comparison.

I'll have to disagree with you a bit there... sure BMW uses higher quality buttons and more soft touch materials... however the difference is nowhere near as pronounced as it was in previous generations of the cars. I think the current gen pony/muscle cars have good enough interiors where it doesn't really matter anymore. It's not like the M3 has an amazing interior, it's not an exotic or a true luxury car. I'd say the Camaro has less squeaks and rattles as well. Also the noticeably old infotainment in the e90 is nowhere near as good as android auto, although I like the iDrive knob better than any other control scheme including touchscreens. GM just needed to put separate exhaust and suspension buttons next to the mode switcher, so we wouldn't need to use the screen to adjust those things.

[nicktechla]

Originally Posted by crankaholic

I'll have to disagree with you a bit there... sure BMW uses higher quality buttons and more soft touch materials... however the difference is nowhere near as pronounced as it was in previous generations of the cars. I think the current gen pony/muscle cars have good enough interiors where it doesn't really matter anymore. It's not like the M3 has an amazing interior, it's not an exotic or a true luxury car. I'd say the Camaro has less squeaks and rattles as well. Also the noticeably old infotainment in the e90 is nowhere near as good as android auto, although I like the iDrive knob better than any other control scheme including touchscreens. GM just needed to put separate exhaust and suspension buttons next to the mode switcher, so we wouldn't need to use the screen to adjust those things.

agreed. the interior quality on the BMW's is pretty nice. Even the Infotainment system is better.

[Whocares05050]

Out of 16 new cars owned, my M135i was one of my favorites. Never had a single squeak or interior issue. No issues other than carbon buildup lol

[50MileSmile]

Originally Posted by crankaholic

I mean yeah, the greenhouse is smaller than in a lot of cars (comparable to other extreme looking sports/super cars, including the 370z)... but you can still actually see everything on the road.

Really? You must have a neck that extends like ET’s.

Originally Posted by crankaholic

I don't think I'd pay over $20k more just to have a few extra inches of glass, and get a worse car.

I wouldn’t pay more either, for a really bad design that shouldn’t have been released in the first place. I’ve owned more than 60 cars, including many of the examples cited here (the 1LE is easily one of the Top 10), but none of them was even close to offering the unnacceptable visibility of the Camaro.

Originally Posted by crankaholic

I'm not a fanboy either, I was going to buy the GT350... until every Ford dealer in a 300 mile radius didn't want to let go of them for anything less than $20k over sticker. It's a really cool car, but not $75k cool.

Be glad you didn’t make the move on a GT350; the 1LE is a much better vehicle. BTW, some Ford dealers are finally wising up on the prices and ADM. A local dealer just sold a new ‘18 he had for months for more than $5K off the MSRP; he still has a brand-new ‘17 GT350 - he’s asking $7.9K off MSRP!

The two cars I’ve bought that I hated the most were an ‘18 M2 DCT (as much fun as a Nissan Altima, without the comparable quality) and a ‘16 GT350, which was the perfect combination of loudness, nastiness, great handling, terrible quality and extremely low reliability.

[CrazyCatGuy]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Have either of you ever owned an e46 m3? That car is affordable now...

I owned a 2006 competition 6mt slick top for 5 years. The center console and door handle materials were chipping off slowly. The door handles creaked like no other everytime you'd open/close the door from inside. The oil leaks were constant, VANOS preventative maintenance wasn't cheap, nor was having to do redish subframe mount plates.

The car was a blast to drive, but in regards to long term ownership, it wasn't up to snuff. They say the M2 is this generation's E46 M3. I think they're right about that, but I would hate to start replacing items after the warranty is over on that FI I6.

[crankaholic]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

Really? You must have a neck that extends like ET’s.



I wouldn’t pay more either, for a really bad design that shouldn’t have been released in the first place. I’ve owned more than 60 cars, including many of the examples cited here (the 1LE is easily one of the Top 10), but none of them was even close to offering the unnacceptable visibility of the Camaro.



Be glad you didn’t make the move on a GT350; the 1LE is a much better vehicle. BTW, some Ford dealers are finally wising up on the prices and ADM. A local dealer just sold a new ‘18 he had for months for more than $5K off the MSRP; he still has a brand-new ‘17 GT350 - he’s asking $7.9K off MSRP!

The two cars I’ve bought that I hated the most were an ‘18 M2 DCT (as much fun as a Nissan Altima, without the comparable quality) and a ‘16 GT350, which was the perfect combination of loudness, nastiness, great handling, terrible quality and extremely low reliability.

Hmmm...

Maybe I'm in the range of perfect height to drive the Camaro, because while I realize the car has a smaller greenhouse that takes away views of the sky and the road right next to the car... I don't have any visibility issues - like I never missed a car around me and it doesn't stress me out at all. I wouldn't have bought the car if it was a real issue for me. I test drove it and loved it. I wish it had a lower belt line, I don't know who's telling GM that it will ruin the design... but I'm not losing sleep over it.

The 135i has a proper hydraulic ZF steering rack, along with M spec suspension arms (different geometry and no hydraulic bushings of the stock car) and lighter/wider/more aggressively offset wheels the steering is better than anything I've driven this side of a 997 - but that's not fair because 911s don't have any weight over the front wheels so they're free to provide good vibes. The rest of the chassis is pretty bland, the engine is OK for something with a turbo strapped to it and the DCT is better than any auto I've driven so far but it's no modern Tremec.

Nothing is perfect unfortunately. I'm sad to hear about the GT350 problems... I don't really follow how the car is doing now, except that there are a lot of used ones up for sale now - although that's usually the case with shiny hyped toys, rich people buy them, drive them for a year and get the latest thing that everyone's talking about. You can snag a used one in great condition for like $48k now... people lost some serious money on them.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by crankaholic

Hmmm...

Maybe I'm in the range of perfect height to drive the Camaro, because while I realize the car has a smaller greenhouse that takes away views of the sky and the road right next to the car... I don't have any visibility issues - like I never missed a car around me and it doesn't stress me out at all. I wouldn't have bought the car if it was a real issue for me. I test drove it and loved it. I wish it had a lower belt line, I don't know who's telling GM that it will ruin the design... but I'm not losing sleep over it.

The 135i has a proper hydraulic ZF steering rack, along with M spec suspension arms (different geometry and no hydraulic bushings of the stock car) and lighter/wider/more aggressively offset wheels the steering is better than anything I've driven this side of a 997 - but that's not fair because 911s don't have any weight over the front wheels so they're free to provide good vibes. The rest of the chassis is pretty bland, the engine is OK for something with a turbo strapped to it and the DCT is better than any auto I've driven so far but it's no modern Tremec.

Nothing is perfect unfortunately. I'm sad to hear about the GT350 problems... I don't really follow how the car is doing now, except that there are a lot of used ones up for sale now - although that's usually the case with shiny hyped toys, rich people buy them, drive them for a year and get the latest thing that everyone's talking about. You can snag a used one in great condition for like $48k now... people lost some serious money on them.

The only slight visibility issue I have with the 6th Gen is when reversing, it can be alittle difficult to see traffic coming before you're practically in their way. For this reason I usually back into every parking space...infact it almost feels awkward not to back in.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

The only slight visibility issue I have with the 6th Gen is when reversing, it can be alittle difficult to see traffic coming before you're practically in their way. For this reason I usually back into every parking space...infact it almost feels awkward not to back in.

You have a 2SS right? I find the rear-cross traffic alert system works very well when reversing.

[Booher]

My only real visibility problem are the massive pillars on each side of the front window.

[MB1]

One of the things that put me off on the current M3/M4 was that the interior quality and number of hard plastics has changed from the E9x generation. The Novillo leather is very high quality on the seats. Mine has extended leather but the E90 M3 I had before this E92 didn't have leather on the bottom panels and was nicer than the new M3s I've seen.

Still think the quality is higher in the BMW in my opinion than what Chevrolet is doing but BMW is starting to go cheaper and the pricing has actually gone up. The interior of the Camaro isn't a place I can't live with. The other thing I didn't like about the new BMW was the turbo 6 engine sound. Now the Camaro sounds way better than a current generation M3. I'm an engine sound person so there's nothing like a V8.

On the squeaks and rattles, my E92 M3 only has a squeak from the armrest that is a bit annoying. Otherwise, its very, very tight with a little under 30,000 miles on it.

I get very good gas mileage but its a pleasure car. Almost 20mpg. It doesn't see traffic. If I got 10, boy, I'd be having a LOT of fun.

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Just a couple of comments on your post...

I agree on the engine sound of the E90/92, it was sublime!!! That car could have had a super quiet exhaust and it would still have sounded amazing. It is the best sounding motor I have ever had, so mechanical and satisfying. I averaged like 10MPG in that car because I spend a lot of time at 6K RPM's and up.

I just came out of a 2016 M3 with the standard leather and to me my 2SS 1LE's interior feels just as nice as the M3, just minus the few bits of carbon the M3 had. The standard M3 interior has plenty of plastic trim pieces. The interior is much quieter in the 1LE compared to the M3 as far as squeaks, rattles, etc. I purposely touched, pressed and moved every button in the Camaro before I bought one to see if things had improved since my C6 Z06, and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised.

[JamesNoBrakes]

People have these biased perceptions of BMW 3-series cars, thinking that the interior is CNCed from one giant solid piece of aluminum, inlaid with goat leather and diamonds. To a large extent, it's what they "want to believe" about these cars. The bottom line is that they are no 6, 7, or even 5 series as far as that goes. Once you are paying 100K things change dramatically, but an M2, M3, M4 is not all that interior-wise IMO. My 4-series SQUEAKED over curbs because the damn door seals gripped the windows and creaked with the body-flex. Sill-less frames, just like the Camaro...but BMW couldn't seem to not make them creak all over the place. Don't get me wrong, the interior isn't horrible, but the BMW has little to nothing over the Camaro in terms of ergonomics and features, although BMW does piece-meal you more, making you pay for stupid stuff like alarm system, keyless entry, cross-traffic alerts, etc. Lots of stuff that is standard on an 2SS was all sorts of extra $$$ on the BMW. About the only thing my BMW had over it was the adaptive cruise control, which for obvious reasons doesn't make a lot of sense with a manual car like the Camaro. Otherwise a lot of stuff like the cluster, HUD, driving modes (and not having to select sport every time I start) is better. 1SS is definitely stripped out more in terms of features, but 2SS gives you a lot that when you compare with a 3 or 4 series BMW, stacks up pretty well.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

People have these biased perceptions of BMW 3-series cars, thinking that the interior is CNCed from one giant solid piece of aluminum, inlaid with goat leather and diamonds. To a large extent, it's what they "want to believe" about these cars. The bottom line is that they are no 6, 7, or even 5 series as far as that goes. Once you are paying 100K things change dramatically, but an M2, M3, M4 is not all that interior-wise IMO. My 4-series SQUEAKED over curbs because the damn door seals gripped the windows and creaked with the body-flex. Sill-less frames, just like the Camaro...but BMW couldn't seem to not make them creak all over the place. Don't get me wrong, the interior isn't horrible, but the BMW has little to nothing over the Camaro in terms of ergonomics and features, although BMW does piece-meal you more, making you pay for stupid stuff like alarm system, keyless entry, cross-traffic alerts, etc. Lots of stuff that is standard on an 2SS was all sorts of extra $$$ on the BMW. About the only thing my BMW had over it was the adaptive cruise control, which for obvious reasons doesn't make a lot of sense with a manual car like the Camaro. Otherwise a lot of stuff like the cluster, HUD, driving modes (and not having to select sport every time I start) is better. 1SS is definitely stripped out more in terms of features, but 2SS gives you a lot that when you compare with a 3 or 4 series BMW, stacks up pretty well.

THIS!!!!!! X 10000000000000