Sister Car...

[Nickdago]

These look great but of course they are using the concept body instead of the production car which makes a big difference

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

why the hell would people be so against it? it worked well in the 70's and 80's...like i said why wouldn't you be ok with it 5-6 yrs down the line?

Because its not the 70s and 80s. Pontiac designs until the Solstice and the G8 were the butt of every automotive design joke. Every photoshop I've seen of the T/A looks like some Uncle Rico type out of the 70s and 80s went on a drug trip. Also, GM doesn't exactly have a ton of cash. They can only spend so much money on marketing. So they could build identical cars with different bodies, double their marketing expense, and go out of business, they could give each car half the marketing budget and both would fail, or they could give one car a marketing budget and neglect the other car, and once again we'd be down to one version. Remember the Aura and Malibu? So which option would be best? Rebadging and redesigning otherwise identical cars that compete only against each other is one of the reasons GM is in the trouble it is today. They go back to the bad old ways and make a Trans Am, and I give my money to a more deserving company.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

why the hell would people be so against it? it worked well in the 70's and 80's...like i said why wouldn't you be ok with it 5-6 yrs down the line?

GM also had ~40% market share back then and Pontiac was #3 or #4 brand in North America. They could make back the costs of rebadging the Camaro very quickly because of lots of guaranteed sales. The Firebird would also draw people into Pontiac dealerships and people would settle for cars like the Grand Prix.

None of that is true anymore. Now with diminished market share, rising gas prices, any muscle car carries a lot of potential risk. Plus the Camaro that is going to have a higher quality interior and more eye catching style, there is no place for a firebird which typically offered these things. And pontiac has alternative performance cars right now too, with the G8 and the Solstice. Are they replacements for the Firebird? No, but they offer a similar draw into dealerships. GM might sell enough to make back their investment but many of those sales will come from the Camaro. The Camaro-Firebird rivalry exists, but the number of people who would only ever buy a Firebird is minimal. Many who would have bought a Firebird will be just as happy with a Camaro. As it is now, GM is only expecting 100k Camaro sales per year. In 1979 they sold more than 250k Camaros, then there were Firebirds on top of that. For the 2010 model year, there might be a combined total of 250k Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers. No room for the Firebird in such a small market.

The economic case for a Firebird twin to the Camaro doesn't make sense. It will cost GM more money than it will make them. Even in PR it could cost them than it will earn. It would be labled as another gas guzzler, which would hurt GM's attempt to go green. GM is seen as the #1 rebadger in the auto industry. They are attempting to shake that reputation, with mixed success mind you, but they don't need to bring any attention to the practice. As I said earlier, bring back something that won't compete against the Camaro, like a Buick. It would have greatly increased profit margins for a small drop in sales volume would give it a better argument.

Would a brand new Firebird based on the Camaro similar to some of the renderings we've seen be cool? Absolutely. Would GM like to be able to make it? Probably. Will GM do it? Never say never but don't wait for it to happen either.

[fastball]

Both of you guys said exactly what I was going to say. I think the only thing I might add is IF GM were to attempt returning the Firebird, long before they would even consider production they would put out a concept as a "feeler".

Any one here think for a minute the Camaro was a go when they released the concept? Fbod may correct me if I'm wrong, but the concept was made just to gauge the public's feel for a two door, 4 seat, RWD performance coupe. If the public was ready to put their money where their mouth was, i.e. everyone complaining that GM should never have halted production of the Camaro in the first place. GM put out the concept, saw the reaction, and said, okay, yes, we can do it now. They'll pay.

The same thing would have to be done with the Firebird long before they'd consider producing it. This isn't a 4 door FWD sedan with room for the whole family. These small cars sell in limited numbers as it is. You can't just arbitrarily throw another one out there just because a few enthusiasts would like it.

[camaro&T/A]

How about this (please don't kill me ) Have the 6th gen be.................T/A only

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

GM also had ~40% market share back then and Pontiac was #3 or #4 brand in North America. They could make back the costs of rebadging the Camaro very quickly because of lots of guaranteed sales. The Firebird would also draw people into Pontiac dealerships and people would settle for cars like the Grand Prix.

None of that is true anymore. Now with diminished market share, rising gas prices, any muscle car carries a lot of potential risk. Plus the Camaro that is going to have a higher quality interior and more eye catching style, there is no place for a firebird which typically offered these things. And pontiac has alternative performance cars right now too, with the G8 and the Solstice. Are they replacements for the Firebird? No, but they offer a similar draw into dealerships. GM might sell enough to make back their investment but many of those sales will come from the Camaro. The Camaro-Firebird rivalry exists, but the number of people who would only ever buy a Firebird is minimal. Many who would have bought a Firebird will be just as happy with a Camaro. As it is now, GM is only expecting 100k Camaro sales per year. In 1979 they sold more than 250k Camaros, then there were Firebirds on top of that. For the 2010 model year, there might be a combined total of 250k Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers. No room for the Firebird in such a small market.

The economic case for a Firebird twin to the Camaro doesn't make sense. It will cost GM more money than it will make them. Even in PR it could cost them than it will earn. It would be labled as another gas guzzler, which would hurt GM's attempt to go green. GM is seen as the #1 rebadger in the auto industry. They are attempting to shake that reputation, with mixed success mind you, but they don't need to bring any attention to the practice. As I said earlier, bring back something that won't compete against the Camaro, like a Buick. It would have greatly increased profit margins for a small drop in sales volume would give it a better argument.

Would a brand new Firebird based on the Camaro similar to some of the renderings we've seen be cool? Absolutely. Would GM like to be able to make it? Probably. Will GM do it? Never say never but don't wait for it to happen either.

very well said

[dayvedayve]

My vote = No. Rebirth of the Firebird, OK. Just dont make it off the Camaro. Feel free to use the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gens as a templet, but dont rebadge this car. I personally feel that is what really hurt GM and Ford sales. To much competition between yourself is not good.

[radz28]

IMHO, I think it should come back. Why not? There may not be as many enthusiasts as Camaro has, but I don't think they are any less fanatic. The more the better. I guess Pontiac has the G8 but why not a sister car to Camaro?

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by radz282003

IMHO, I think it should come back. Why not? There may not be as many enthusiasts as Camaro has, but I don't think they are any less fanatic. The more the better. I guess Pontiac has the G8 but why not a sister car to Camaro?

i can see what you are saying, and i always appreciate there being more options for people. so there will be less cars just like mine. but the thing is i dont think gm can afford it, both in the wallet and in the image it gives the company.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by headpunter

i can see what you are saying, and i always appreciate there being more options for people. so there will be less cars just like mine. but the thing is i dont think gm can afford it, both in the wallet and in the image it gives the company.

- Unfortunately...

[chevydude26]

it works for the solstice and sky...get rid of the g8 lol j/p

what pontiac can do is make a gto but make it with more room than the camaro...so you have a competitor to the 300 also make it retro futuristic style...in the same vein as the camaro

but damn i would love a firebird t.a.

who cares about logic ...just do it in a few years

besides what is to stop pontiac from building a sister car? saturn did it to pontiac and pontiac wasn't too happy about it with the sky and solstice

[MerF]

But the Sky and the Solstice are not the same car are they? Are they even the same chassis or same price range? Doesn't seem like that's the same thing really.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by MerF

But the Sky and the Solstice are not the same car are they? Are they even the same chassis or same price range? Doesn't seem like that's the same thing really.

They are the same car - front and rear end design, wheels, and interior are the only differences.

Chasis, drivetrain, and platform (kappa) are otherwise exactly the same.

Pricewise, I think the Sky is a bit more expensive.

For me personally, I love the Sky and really don't care for the Solstice at all. I've always been a proponent of crisp, chisled, tight style over rounded, bulbous, and smoothed out lines.

[boxmonkeyracing]

sky is only more expensive because more stuff comes with the base.