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Old 04-17-2013, 04:24 PM   #29
BaylorCamaro
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
How "tunable" is the BoschBox-equipped DI 3.6 V6, after how many years?

That's what's ahead for the Gen-5 SBC...
Exactly! Many of us (including myself) have had SERIOUS issues with the Bosch ECU and all of the tuning mess. On the flip side, now that GM is using this in their flag ship vehicles more and more tuning companies are going to get involved with the tuning.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post
Exactly! Many of us (including myself) have had SERIOUS issues with the Bosch ECU and all of the tuning mess. On the flip side, now that GM is using this in their flag ship vehicles more and more tuning companies are going to get involved with the tuning.
the bosch ecu wont be getting used.

fyi:

http://www.corvette7.com/forums/show...3&postcount=20
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by JR-Vette View Post
Everyone ?

Not hardly, everyone, meaning all of us who have been custom tuning back to the old E-prom ECMs of 1980s never had a issue tuning any of the ones you mention and the tools like Tunercats, LT1/LS1/LS2 edit filled the gaps of all the above early on.

Huge difference in a tuning program hacking a security code and today's C7's controllers learning from past hacking GM made sure it will be much harder to hack and far easier to tell if the controllers were hacked on

In the end I'd suggest to C7 buyers not to be the tuning testpigs as we saw with the C6s a huge amount of engines blown to hell by claims of "secret" tuning methods.

GM is not dumb and has learned a lot and has some surprises as what OnStar will be doing in the background to see if C7s were hacked.

Except it would be illegal for onstar to report anything after a subscription is over, wouldn't it? Trust me, GM is not dumb enough to ILLEGALLY collect information on what it's customer's do with their cars.


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Originally Posted by bolteon593 View Post
it's not even a matter of saying that nothing should be tried...


it's BEEN tried for years now across the pond. what a lot of people tend to forget is how complicated reverse engineering electronic components is; especially when they're a set of brains tied together that dictate the actions of a small metal box that explodes hundreds of times a minute.


sure, it's doable. but not cost effective...

that's the main issue; while everything in this world is hackable, does it make sense to spend X when you only get back X/100?
So what vehicle uses this PCM then? It's an entirely new family, but then people on here say it's not. Which one is it? From what I have heard it's a Delphi ECM, which would make sense. Bosch first (LNF/LLT), Siemens second (LFX/LHU), Delphi final(LT1).

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Originally Posted by bolteon593 View Post
the bosch ecu wont be getting used.

fyi:

http://www.corvette7.com/forums/show...3&postcount=20
I am very confused but many of the comments in this thread. People say bosch can't be tuned, yet it has been, people say Siemens can't be tuned, yet it has been (E39), I highly doubt E92 will be any different regardless of who makes it. Will it be instantly tunable? Probably not, but it will be and I am just glad that we have been working on DI calibrations for many years, so we understand the proper way to calibrate them rather than waiving the flag of surrender before it's even on the market.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:56 PM   #32
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Your behind the times,
EPA/SAE if you want to call it OBD-III or another name requires wireless.

The whole purpose of the requirement nameplates use wireless was multi purpose but one of course is to query PCMs to determine if the vehicle is out of I/M spec an hence the feds have approved using that wireless to query any data.

While car is under full GM warranty it is not spying as it is GM's software in controllers not the car owners and has the right to determine if their property has been hacked.
Feds also have approved 3rd party business to sell services to monitor, test and query via wireless or internet.
One service I worked with charges like $9 and within 1 minute can do the tests and build a report on the internet such as :

http://vehiclemri.com/Reports/Vehicl...mplete+659.pdf

http://vehiclemri.com/

Takes nothing more then a connection to DLC and a internet or wireless path.

Since the feds think this is a helpful service they allow any nameplate for TEST purposes to query whatever they want.
OnStar is legal and being it is on ( Starbus, GMLAN and CAN) is being sent data, it is not spying as controllers are sending the data to other controllers including the OnStar controller.
Heck cars can just be parked at a dealer and automatic wireless using OnStar path query controllers and if updates are seen then auto downloaded and

EPA wants this as it takes out of the hands of techs at smog shops cheating (passing cars that would have failed) by having the auto test process wireless.

Facts do not change the PCM used for the C7 has been used on other nameplates and models, mostly in Europe and no one has been able to succeed in connecting, or faking to be the server so that the PCM ( client) content can be read and modified so no sense in the maybes, could be or waving a magic wand so C7 buyers now should forget any so called performance mods until tuning is possible and that you know those tuners know about VVT, Di, DOD, etc and not be the testpigs for their learning curve.

Until ALL new functions and controllers are understood and if PCM does get hacked at this time I know of no tuner product vendor even starting on this and at the least cannot until the C7 hits streets late summer or early fall and within 2 years GM maybe using a totally different PCM design
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:35 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JR-Vette View Post
Your behind the times,
EPA/SAE if you want to call it OBD-III or another name requires wireless.

The whole purpose of the requirement nameplates use wireless was multi purpose but one of course is to query PCMs to determine if the vehicle is out of I/M spec an hence the feds have approved using that wireless to query any data.

While car is under full GM warranty it is not spying as it is GM's software in controllers not the car owners and has the right to determine if their property has been hacked.
Feds also have approved 3rd party business to sell services to monitor, test and query via wireless or internet.
One service I worked with charges like $9 and within 1 minute can do the tests and build a report on the internet such as :

http://vehiclemri.com/Reports/Vehicl...mplete+659.pdf

http://vehiclemri.com/

Takes nothing more then a connection to DLC and a internet or wireless path.

Since the feds think this is a helpful service they allow any nameplate for TEST purposes to query whatever they want.
OnStar is legal and being it is on ( Starbus, GMLAN and CAN) is being sent data, it is not spying as controllers are sending the data to other controllers including the OnStar controller.
Heck cars can just be parked at a dealer and automatic wireless using OnStar path query controllers and if updates are seen then auto downloaded and

EPA wants this as it takes out of the hands of techs at smog shops cheating (passing cars that would have failed) by having the auto test process wireless.

Facts do not change the PCM used for the C7 has been used on other nameplates and models, mostly in Europe and no one has been able to succeed in connecting, or faking to be the server so that the PCM ( client) content can be read and modified so no sense in the maybes, could be or waving a magic wand so C7 buyers now should forget any so called performance mods until tuning is possible and that you know those tuners know about VVT, Di, DOD, etc and not be the testpigs for their learning curve.

Until ALL new functions and controllers are understood and if PCM does get hacked at this time I know of no tuner product vendor even starting on this and at the least cannot until the C7 hits streets late summer or early fall and within 2 years GM maybe using a totally different PCM design
^ mic. drop.


excellent info as usual. vehiclemri is pretty fascinating...
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:44 AM   #34
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You guys are getting allllll worked up over what basically amounts to nothing.

The controller is basically an E39A with some extra drivers and subsequent inputs. As per usual it will be shared with the 14 DI full size trucks and I'm looking at that file right now. It uses the normal suspects for calibration segments just as the previous E39 did (OS/Cal Segments are 3.76MB so it looks like 4MB of flash). Nothing unusual at all, not encrypted and yes it is using one of the 255 New Seed/Key algos but that will take almost no time to get handled. This unit does have the seperate torque area checksum just like the E39 but I suspect EFI live will have something publicly available for these pretty stinkin quickly. This is business as usual in the tuning world no "The sky is falling" scenarios.

The challenge lies in effectively mastering the different injection timings/scenarios as well as the torque based output tables.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:20 AM   #35
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I've got a Z51 ordered from Purifoy in the Denver area and they are an authorized Callaway dealer. My plan is to have them install the Callaway supercharger package which includes a complete upgraded fuel delivery system and their famous carbon fiber hood "power bulge" hood. We're guessing an increase to 650 HP. Does anyone know about Callaways plans to deal with the SC setup for the new LT1 engine, or if they will change the hood design?
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:02 AM   #36
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Just to keep this thread up to date EFI Live has full E92 read and flash support as of yesterday Tuning shouldn't be far behind.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by GTPprix View Post
Just to keep this thread up to date EFI Live has full E92 read and flash support as of yesterday Tuning shouldn't be far behind.
You overlooked the part where they have NOT done this for the C7 and they admit GM can tell PCM was tuned even if the stock flash is put back on

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"The 5.3L L83 is E85 capable and uses a real sensor, not estimation.
Of course we haven't seen a Corvette LT1 tune yet so who knows with them. "
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:32 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by JR-Vette View Post
You overlooked the part where they have NOT done this for the C7 and they admit GM can tell PCM was tuned even if the stock flash is put back on

Quote
"The 5.3L L83 is E85 capable and uses a real sensor, not estimation.
Of course we haven't seen a Corvette LT1 tune yet so who knows with them. "
umm..... if you read the thread, he's talking about the corvette having a flex fuel option in the ECM, not if they can tune it

it's ok to say you were wrong you know...
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JR-Vette View Post
You overlooked the part where they have NOT done this for the C7 and they admit GM can tell PCM was tuned even if the stock flash is put back on

Quote
"The 5.3L L83 is E85 capable and uses a real sensor, not estimation.
Of course we haven't seen a Corvette LT1 tune yet so who knows with them. "
It's an E92 it shares the exact same calibration structure, security etc. It's a non issue at this point, its over. As far as GM checking CVN if you are worried about it don't tune your car
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:28 PM   #40
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Total bunk and nothing but marketing ploy to suck people into taking a rev .0, C7 spend 50-70K to buy and then have some hackers down in aussieland who can care less about car owners warranty or USA smog rules.
As it is there is a ton of Hackers out there claiming to be "tuners" who cost countless people with like C6s with blown LS7s and GM warranty that was ripped up

It was the same marketing that made claims and then could not support the E40 PCM for 2005 and the same when the A6 trannie came out the same vendor was not able to tune that for some time

You cannot compare what they see in aussie land, if GM pickups using LT1 or what Holden is using
C7 has logic such as launch control, rev matching on shifts and even the new control for NPP that cannot be seen hacking with a truck PCM.
There is a big difference in yanking the flash chip out of the PCM to get around all the security and reading that in static mode and what will be required for a stand alone tuning production product.

Until C7s are on the streets to even be the testpigs then "it's a done deal" claim now is bogus, unsafe and a tuning vendor outside the USA could care less how many C7s are blown to hell on bogus tuning process.

As to wrong, now it is just a fairy tale as not one tuner has the PCM coded for a C7 much less the total car to do countless tune setups to assure VVT, DOD, DI, new fuel pump system, all all the other new functions can be safety tuned or even if those functions are controlled within the PCM

The question is now that vendors cannot lie about GM trapping that PCM was flashed just how many new C7 owners will even consider someone hacking their C7 with the threat of warranty loss ?
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:38 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by GTPprix View Post
It's an E92 it shares the exact same calibration structure, security etc. It's a non issue at this point, its over. As far as GM checking CVN if you are worried about it don't tune your car
Hate to tell you but the C7 uses a different process and looking at E92s used for the last 3 years means zero.
You cannot predict an unknown and guessing does not cut it.
As to CVN, you need to learn up as the GM log process is much different then even E38 or E67 has and as it was CVN has zero to do with how GM places tracks around other controllers via GMLAN to know what has been hacked.

Giving new C7 owners before buying the car that the notion they should buy mods now as tuning will exist is bogus and could cause real problems when a new C7 is hacked on with mods and car runs like crap and any vendor now making claims without ever testing with production C7s is a vendor owners should stay away from as their Q/A process does not even exist and being a custom tuner for 20 years I suggest you C7 owners stay away from any tuning claims until others have blown up C7s in the learning curve of tuning tools and tuners who cannot tune with a MAF much less all the new LT1 functions.
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:48 PM   #42
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Hate to tell you but the C7 uses a different process and looking at E92s used for the last 3 years means zero.
You cannot predict an unknown and guessing does not cut it.
As to CVN, you need to learn up as the GM log process is much different then even E38 or E67 has and as it was CVN has zero to do with how GM places tracks around other controllers via GMLAN to know what has been hacked.

Giving new C7 owners before buying the car that the notion they should buy mods now as tuning will exist is bogus and could cause real problems when a new C7 is hacked on with mods and car runs like crap and any vendor now making claims without ever testing with production C7s is a vendor owners should stay away from as their Q/A process does not even exist and being a custom tuner for 20 years I suggest you C7 owners stay away from any tuning claims until others have blown up C7s in the learning curve of tuning tools and tuners who cannot tune with a MAF much less all the new LT1 functions.
You also said and I quote

Quote:
"I suggest you do more homework as the C7 uses the Siemans PCM from Europe, not Bosch and it has been used for 3 years over there and not one person has cracked it, nor how the PCM has to connect and exchange protocol client to server
It so bad that owners of performance cars in Europe are forced to change to different PCMs and remove engine functions that older PCMs were not designed for. "
This right here disqualifies you from basically talking about ANY of this with any authority.

1. Its not a Siemens box its a GMH (Delphi) box.
2. Its a BRAND NEW controller it hasn't been used ANYWHERE except these NA applications.
3. CVN process is EXACTLY the same as the E39A!

So please take your OWN advice and go do your homework.

But hey what do I know I'm only the guy that actually has a C7 ECM for development sitting right in front of him.
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