[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by DriftR

I turned On Star Smart Driver off in the app and after checking some time later it was toggled back on… and it wasn’t by me or anyone else other than GM. I never gave permissions or consented to sell my data to third parties for monetary gains, seemingly at my expense. They did wrong by their customers and betrayed a trust to their supporters. They deserve a black eye for this.

Seems to happen when the app updates.

[L2SS455]

Is your car spying on you? This is what one woman said happened to her.

[olrocker]

This goes back to what I said a while ago: the entire OnStar system - hardware and software - should be OPTIONAL in every car, and if you don’t want it you shouldn’t be forced to buy a car with it. This not a catalytic converter. There are no federal regulations that stipulate every car must have satellite communications connecting all vehicle operations to some remote data collector.

It’s a friggin car!

God I wish the lawsuit forced GM to make it optional and forced the company to completely remove all OnStar communication transceivers from every customer vehicle since 1996 for free, parts and labor, for anyone who wants it removed.

[Kamero6]

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive

I opted out of the Smart Driver plan as soon as I learned about it, one month after delivery. This is what I saw when I logged in to opt out:

190 hard accelerations and 23mpg.... Something doesn't add here.

Late night driving....
I commuted at night for some time, there isn't a safer time to drive than late night, no cars, no makeup while driving, no people getting to work late, you just need to be carefult at intersections. That's all.

[Dabjbr]

I never signed up for on star but my insurance has been going up lately. I think it’s due to my adult kids on the policy. However, now I’m unsure.

I just requested my report from lexisnexis. If I find out they’ve sold my data, I’ll definitely pursue a lawsuit. For those of us that track our cars, these reports will (unfairly) cause havoc as it assumes the aggressive driving is on the streets and not a confined racetrack.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by Dabjbr

I never signed up for on star but my insurance has been going up lately. I think it’s due to my adult kids on the policy. However, now I’m unsure.

I just requested my report from lexisnexis. If I find out they’ve sold my data, I’ll definitely pursue a lawsuit. For those of us that track our cars, these reports will (unfairly) cause havoc as it assumes the aggressive driving is on the streets and not a confined racetrack.

Ins all over the board has gone up. FL is insane for auto, home and flood. Just seems everything did a reset and prices jumped on everything since 2020.

[plus1zero]

Originally Posted by olrocker

I have a good driving record. I drive responsibly. I haven’t had a speeding ticket since 2003.

GM still has no right to track every movement of my car and sell it -or even give it - to anyone.

Exactly.

Unless they're explicit in how they're doing it and you have to go out of your way to sign up for it and know that you're opting in, no reason to be doing it.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

This goes back to what I said a while ago: the entire OnStar system - hardware and software - should be OPTIONAL in every car, and if you don’t want it you shouldn’t be forced to buy a car with it. This not a catalytic converter. There are no federal regulations that stipulate every car must have satellite communications connecting all vehicle operations to some remote data collector.

It’s a friggin car!

God I wish the lawsuit forced GM to make it optional and forced the company to completely remove all OnStar communication transceivers from every customer vehicle since 1996 for free, parts and labor, for anyone who wants it removed.

Why would we want the government deciding what equipment should be optional? That's a bit intrusive to the automotive business, is it not? Kind of like how safety equipment and emissions mandates are?

It seems that the choice already belongs to the consumer. GM includes OnStar communications with their vehicles. Don't like it? Don't buy a GM vehicle.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Why would we want the government deciding what equipment should be optional? That's a bit intrusive to the automotive business, is it not? Kind of like how safety equipment and emissions mandates are?

It seems that the choice already belongs to the consumer. GM includes OnStar communications with their vehicles. Don't like it? Don't buy a GM vehicle.

Completely false.

If you don’t like the style or performance of a GM vehicle, don’t buy a GM vehicle.

The feature should be optional - and this isnt a question of if you want power windows or manual crank windows. This is a serious technical integration of all vehicle operation with clandestine communication to a data storage device that is a major invasion of privacy.

I submit GM should be held CRIMINALLY responsible. And I do not mince words here!!

[NovaSS4spdFan]

Within days of delivery of my new 2SS Vert, On Star started bugging me about signing up. It went on for nearly two months. Thinking back, the last time I had that kind of arm twisting was during a family vacation to Orlando some 30 years ago. They tried their darndest to sell me a timeshare.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Completely false.

If you don’t like the style or performance of a GM vehicle, don’t buy a GM vehicle.

The feature should be optional - and this isnt a question of if you want power windows or manual crank windows. This is a serious technical integration of all vehicle operation with clandestine communication to a data storage device that is a major invasion of privacy.

I submit GM should be held CRIMINALLY responsible. And I do not mince words here!!

Not false. GM as a company has a right to include whatever features they want as included in the vehicle price.

They also inform you regarding data collection in the owner's manual, when you agree to use the app, and if/when you sign up for service. It's the same as software....if you do not agree to the terms, then do not use it.

There is no right to privacy in this country. It is not guaranteed in the US Constitution nor in most state constitutions and several very high profile legal cases have been settled with regard to the same. So you can say GM is wrong or that they "should not" include OnStar in their offerings, but the fact is, they have a right to do so, and they have a right to collect your data in accordance with the agreements they set forth.

The only thing to be decided in this case is any data they may have collected without consent or if they've used data in ways which isn't permissible by the consent given. Chances are this whole thing settles outside of a judgement and GM keeps doing what they do, except with more paperwork.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Not false. GM as a company has a right to include whatever features they want as included in the vehicle price.

They also inform you regarding data collection in the owner's manual, when you agree to use the app, and if/when you sign up for service. It's the same as software....if you do not agree to the terms, then do not use it.

There is no right to privacy in this country. It is not guaranteed in the US Constitution nor in most state constitutions and several very high profile legal cases have been settled with regard to the same. So you can say GM is wrong or that they "should not" include OnStar in their offerings, but the fact is, they have a right to do so, and they have a right to collect your data in accordance with the agreements they set forth.

The only thing to be decided in this case is any data they may have collected without consent or if they've used data in ways which isn't permissible by the consent given. Chances are this whole thing settles outside of a judgement and GM keeps doing what they do, except with more paperwork.

Oh, so they have the right to sell your personal data even if you never signed up for the service and was opted-out on the app? That’s news to me. Dead wrong and they’re definitely liable.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Not false. GM as a company has a right to include whatever features they want as included in the vehicle price.

They also inform you regarding data collection in the owner's manual, when you agree to use the app, and if/when you sign up for service. It's the same as software....if you do not agree to the terms, then do not use it.

There is no right to privacy in this country. It is not guaranteed in the US Constitution nor in most state constitutions and several very high profile legal cases have been settled with regard to the same. So you can say GM is wrong or that they "should not" include OnStar in their offerings, but the fact is, they have a right to do so, and they have a right to collect your data in accordance with the agreements they set forth.

The only thing to be decided in this case is any data they may have collected without consent or if they've used data in ways which isn't permissible by the consent given. Chances are this whole thing settles outside of a judgement and GM keeps doing what they do, except with more paperwork.

1. I have never signed up for OnStar and refused to give my CC number at purchase.

2. I have never been a subscriber to OnStar

3. I do not have an account, never downloaded the app, and I have never consented to ANYTHING.

Yet, with a non-existent OnStar account, GM can stil:

1. Track the location of my car. (They may not directly have the information that I myself is the owner of it, but anyone can cross reference VINs to state title registries). I’m not paying for it, and GM will tell me they can’t track my car if it gets stolen, they can say they can’t tell how fast the car is going, but they absolutely still can. They have the radio ID whether you subscribe to OnStar and accept the terms or not. So yes, they are illegally collecting your infirmation at all times.

2. Even if you wreck and have airbag deployment, and you are not an OnStar subscriber, they will still have the data of arbsg deployment. They won’t call you to see if you’re ok because you didn’t give them money, but they still know what exactly happened.

3. Some government entity is collecting all this data from everyone even those who’ve NEVER had an OnStar subscription in their life.

Now, I’m hardly of the tinfoil hat crowd but this should scare the crap out of you. And make you absolutely irate. If it doesn’t you’re absolutely part of the problems we have in America and there’s no use in you and I directly discussing this matter any further because your head is in the sand.

We’re not Russia for God’s sake.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

1. I have never signed up for OnStar and refused to give my CC number at purchase.

2. I have never been a subscriber to OnStar

3. I do not have an account, never downloaded the app, and I have never consented to ANYTHING.

Yet, with a non-existent OnStar account, GM can stil:

1. Track the location of my car. (They may not directly have the information that I myself is the owner of it, but anyone can cross reference VINs to state title registries). I’m not paying for it, and GM will tell me they can’t track my car if it gets stolen, they can say they can’t tell how fast the car is going, but they absolutely still can. They have the radio ID whether you subscribe to OnStar and accept the terms or not. So yes, they are illegally collecting your infirmation at all times.

2. Even if you wreck and have airbag deployment, and you are not an OnStar subscriber, they will still have the data of arbsg deployment. They won’t call you to see if you’re ok because you didn’t give them money, but they still know what exactly happened.

3. Some government entity is collecting all this data from everyone even those who’ve NEVER had an OnStar subscription in their life.

Now, I’m hardly of the tinfoil hat crowd but this should scare the crap out of you. And make you absolutely irate. If it doesn’t you’re absolutely part of the problems we have in America and there’s no use in you and I directly discussing this matter any further because your head is in the sand.

We’re not Russia for God’s sake.

Perhaps you'd like to argue with me over what the owner's manual states about what the car records and shares while you drive it. It's why they advise you read the manual before operating the car for the first time. See the section about Onstar, and privacy.

OnStar changed their privacy terms back in like...2011? To say that even if you don't have an OnStar account, the car still shares data about itself and how it's driven. And vehicles have been recording crash data since 30 years ago, typically on a device in the car or in the airbag module itself. Those devices are sometimes subpoenaed in high profile collisions.

The difference between you and me is I'm aware they're collecting data, and I bought the car anyway. My cell phone, smart TV, and so much of what I do is already tracked. The car doesn't really concern me. I work with technology all day.

The piece that does concern me is the automatic re-enrollment in Smart Driver. The lawsuits need to get to the bottom of that. When I say no to something like that, I mean it forever until I change my response. I've explicitly stated my non-consent in exactly the way their program requires.

I'm not sure what you think the government is doing with this data or why they'd purchase it, pay to store it, or what they'd do with it. People are really boring. That gets a little tinfoil-hatty. The government has way more interesting data about people. Unless you're not a boring person and maybe you're worried your car will tell a secret?

The problem (well, one..) with America is this knee-jerky, make-up-the-law reaction to everything, rage-du-jour populist BS. Sick the law on things we don't like, but repeal it in the name of freedom when it's not convenient or we don't like it.