10-24-2014, 06:46 PM | #43 | |
145lb Powerlifter
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS RS LS3 Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Conshohocken, PA
Posts: 1,146
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1.) $300 is what I paid was for a custom dynotune out the door. 2.) I said the tuner+plugs+wires was about $500. He doesn't "need" plugs and wires, the stockers are very good and should last nearly 100,000 miles. I would take the stockers over most other brands, anyway. 3.) Because there is no point in paying for it. The stock plugs and wires are just fine. That's money that can be spent elsewhere, or saved. Just because you're taking off a couple parts doesn't mean everything else needs to be changed. Besides, these motors are designed to run with those plugs. Changing plugs and wires could yield *worse* performance. Why would you say plugs and wires only last a year? They're rated for 100,000 miles of service life. That's 7-10 years for a daily driver, and if it isn't your daily driver you'll probably sell it with stock plugs. 4.) Which is why I said he should spend $300-400 on a good dynotune. That's not an area you skimp on. I was advising him on how he could save costs, namely: a.) Buying the material himself and saving mark-up. b.) Eliminating the handheld tuner. A good dynotune on a bolt-on car is all you need. c.) Eliminating the plugs and wires because they are unnecessary and won't add any performance, or could degrade performance in the long run. d.) Doing the labor himself for the header install. Even if he decides to go to you and have the headers installed and get the dynotune, he can save a lot of money on things he really doesn't need by taking a few of these steps. I'm a contractor by trade, and a partial sale is better than no sale.
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10-24-2014, 06:47 PM | #44 |
Wow i should reread before i post
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10-24-2014, 09:40 PM | #45 | |
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2013 VR Camaro 2SS/RS LS3
Small, but effective mod list: Roto-Fab Intake, TSP 2" Long tubes, TSP catless mids, MSD spark plug wires, stock catback, Elite Catch Can, APEX washer relocation and scoop, VMAX throttle body, Diablo InTune-Tuned by Matt@FSP, and a JacFab license plate bracket. |
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10-24-2014, 10:28 PM | #46 | |
145lb Powerlifter
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS RS LS3 Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Conshohocken, PA
Posts: 1,146
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Quote:
Then after the headers are installed, reinstall the stock plugs and wires.
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10-24-2014, 11:37 PM | #47 |
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I would imagine so lol...but I'm asking what if they rub afterward? One of mine way sitting right on the primary after install...of course you have to remove them lol
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2013 VR Camaro 2SS/RS LS3
Small, but effective mod list: Roto-Fab Intake, TSP 2" Long tubes, TSP catless mids, MSD spark plug wires, stock catback, Elite Catch Can, APEX washer relocation and scoop, VMAX throttle body, Diablo InTune-Tuned by Matt@FSP, and a JacFab license plate bracket. |
10-25-2014, 06:19 AM | #48 |
Drives: 2ss/rs/2013 camaro 1LE Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: missouri
Posts: 107
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Seems to me if they rub they will rub old ones or new ones ....Maybe I don't understand what your saying. but I don't think I would buy new plugs or wires.
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10-25-2014, 08:05 AM | #49 |
old school chevy rodder
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,587
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first the TR6 ix plugs are better than the stock plugs for eliminating any spots of trouble on the air fuel map of the cars engine in the ECU during a tune.... the price is good second as a dyno tune runs $500 and they are going to give you a tuner loaded with the tune it sounds like if you ever need to go back to stock... I would talk to them about this as a dyno tune does so much more than most handheld tuners with all the parameters that can be altered and changed. Look up info on the Tr6 plugs and you will after researching enough know they are the sole plug I would swap into my modded engine besides stock. Second the reason you are even doubting if its worth it is because you might not know of Livernois, If I had it my way I would have went there and I am in Oregon. You will have heard of other famous places like Calloway, or Hennessey, or others that I think Livernois's prices are better in many aspects for a build without all the stupid frills like custom badging, special decals and embroidered headrests for ten grand.......
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2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop
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10-25-2014, 08:16 AM | #50 |
Drives: 1987 Buick Regal Turbo-T Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grand Blanc, MI/Dearborn Heights, MI
Posts: 452
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This is another reason we replace the wires, the stock wires have a very large boot on them that many times do contact the headers, causing the boot to burn. Worse yet, sometimes the wire touches and burns through. Many people then spend money on heat socks to protect them. Instead of doing something like this, we put in MSD wires which, not only are a much better performing wire, but have a much smaller diameter boot, and the boot itself is flexible, allowing you to position it away from the headers.
On the front of the stock plugs being "rated for 100,000 miles" Remember, it says "up to" 100,000 miles. Also, this is on a completely stock car. A tune, headers, intake, etc all will dramatically shorten the life of the plug. We also move to a copper plug, which carries much more energy and handles heat much better than the fine wire iridium plugs do. They have a shorter life than iridiums, but that's ok. Have you ever tried to change plugs that were in a car for 100k? Not fun at all. If we are really honest with ourselves, all of these mods are to increase performance, so why would you want to skimp and reuse stock parts that can inhibit performance? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Of course, to each their own, but there is no way that we would ever skimp on a job as we feel it's a case of penny wise and pound foolish. The honest way to look at it is if the customer cannot afford an extra ~90 for plugs and wires, he really, really should not be modifying their car in the first place. The programmer? Absolutely, it is an optional piece, but many people request it to be included as they like having their stock tune at their disposal at all times. |
10-25-2014, 08:29 AM | #51 | |
Drives: 1987 Buick Regal Turbo-T Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grand Blanc, MI/Dearborn Heights, MI
Posts: 452
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10-25-2014, 08:39 AM | #52 | |
Drives: 1987 Buick Regal Turbo-T Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grand Blanc, MI/Dearborn Heights, MI
Posts: 452
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We itemize our services, meaning since we are baselining the car, it's being notated as happening. Don't want a baseline? That's up to you, but it won't affect the pricing since it's a free service that comes with all installs. The handheld tuner is to store our custom tune once done, and to put the car back to stock if he ever needs to. As I have posted a few times, it's the only item that's optional. However, it's not a "handheld programmer" it's a custom tune delivery device, meaning our custom dyno tune get's loaded onto it once done. And, even though the pricing, again, are just meaningless place holders, you just stated $800 was a price you paid for less services, since you already had the intake on, and we are charging $810 including a baseline, installing the intake, and dyno tuning it. I am really confused where the issue is with what we are doing. |
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10-25-2014, 09:01 AM | #53 | |
H-Town Camaro Club Member
Drives: 17 Hyper Blue Metallic KLR-ZL1 Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pearland Tx.
Posts: 2,035
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10-25-2014, 11:01 AM | #54 | |
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Remove stock setup Install new headers Reinstall stock plugs and wires Realize at that point stock wires rub Buy new wires Wires don't rub Problem fixed End of story
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2013 VR Camaro 2SS/RS LS3
Small, but effective mod list: Roto-Fab Intake, TSP 2" Long tubes, TSP catless mids, MSD spark plug wires, stock catback, Elite Catch Can, APEX washer relocation and scoop, VMAX throttle body, Diablo InTune-Tuned by Matt@FSP, and a JacFab license plate bracket. |
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10-25-2014, 01:28 PM | #55 |
145lb Powerlifter
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS RS LS3 Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Conshohocken, PA
Posts: 1,146
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If they rub after install, it's not going to matter what brand of plugs and wires you have. Route them differently. If it's that big of an issue because of the boot size, you can make some type of heat shield skirt.
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10-25-2014, 04:14 PM | #56 |
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I don't know man all I can say is one of mine sat on the primary after install and I just invested $70 extra to put new wires..what's $70? Might as well
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2013 VR Camaro 2SS/RS LS3
Small, but effective mod list: Roto-Fab Intake, TSP 2" Long tubes, TSP catless mids, MSD spark plug wires, stock catback, Elite Catch Can, APEX washer relocation and scoop, VMAX throttle body, Diablo InTune-Tuned by Matt@FSP, and a JacFab license plate bracket. |
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