BRZ Experience

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

The next Camaro is going to be smaller, which might put it in the same category. Obviously, the Camaro will be anchored by V6 and V8 performance that will both give excellent performance. For more budget-oriented buyers, I can imagine GM offering a turbo-4 to fight and win against these buyers in the same price range. Keep in mind that the BRZ and FR-S start around $25k, pretty close to what a 2015 Camaro LS might cost.

I really doubt the next Camaro will shift that far downscale from where it is now..

[Fiveg56]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I really doubt the next Camaro will shift that far downscale from where it is now..

Downscale?? What do you mean?

[Russo]

I like them, but knowing my luck, they would release an STI version the week after I took delivery of the regular one

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Fiveg56

Downscale?? What do you mean?

I sure wouldn't put them in the same catagory as the Camaro no matter if they were the exact same size.

[Fiveg56]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I sure wouldn't put them in the same catagory as the Camaro no matter if they were the exact same size.

Ok...but I don't get it. The Camaro starting price is actually lower then the BRZ....even now.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Fiveg56

Ok...but I don't get it. The Camaro starting price is actually lower then the BRZ....even now.

Price has nothing to do with it, it's image style and target buyer, different catagories. Anyone looking for a American sports/muscle car surely wouldn't consider a BRZ.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I really doubt the next Camaro will shift that far downscale from where it is now..

There's nothing downscale about offering higher performance out of a smaller, lighter package. Alpha will also be home to the Cadillac ATS, which will feature the corporate 3.6L V6 and a turbocharged 4-cylinder. Obviously, the bodies will be different. What is less obvious is that the Camaro may weigh even less than the planned ATS due to less high-end features. After all, Chevrolet is not Cadillac. By offering the same performance-oriented 2.0L turbo, the Camaro will be offering what has already been decided to be a great engine for the platform.

Currently, the Camaro offers a V6 because the V6 has always been a staple in the Camaro. The only thing stopping Chevrolet from offering a 4-cylinder option is that previous testing determined that the vehicle is no longer fun to drive. This won't be a problem if the Camaro sheds a lot of weight. Of course, there won't be a 4-banger SS, but the option of having a 2.0L turbo would give GM the opportunity to pit a direct competitor to import products while still fighting traditional domestic rivals from Ford and Dodge.

Besides, designing a smaller, faster Camaro on a flexible platform that can support a performance-oriented 4-cylinder engine is way less expensive that building a whole new car just to compete with products like the BRZ because GM already has a need for the Camaro. This just expands the market and gets more people in on the fun.

[Fiveg56]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Price has nothing to do with it, it's image style and target buyer, different catagories. Anyone looking for a American sports/muscle car surely wouldn't consider a BRZ.

Many people in the market for the V6 Camaro will no doubt look at the BRZ. It's the same target market with out a doubt....cheap, fun, car.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Fiveg56

Many people in the market for the V6 Camaro will no doubt look at the BRZ. It's the same target market with out a doubt....cheap, fun, car.

Did you just call the V6 Camaro cheap?

[Fiveg56]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Did you just call the V6 Camaro cheap?

....how about inexpensive?

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Fiveg56

Many people in the market for the V6 Camaro will no doubt look at the BRZ. It's the same target market with out a doubt....cheap, fun, car.

Well I have a V6 and I wouldn't consider one....
I think they are more competition for a Miata than a Camaro....

[Mayhem]

Don't own one, but I've driven em. And considering the possibility of picking up a BRZ soon.

Coming from a Camaro SS/RS... The things that stood out to me..

-Handling was amazing.. And it was extremely fun to whip around the city & curvey roads.
I had more "fun" driving the BRZ than the SS even without the power/torque/looks.

-The power is lacking. But that is not what this car is about. If you don't get that, your loss.

Given the dynamics of the car... It really doesn't need much more power and even in it's current state, is still worth the current price tag. I would pay a little more for a little more though. As well engineered this car is, and as much as it has achieved a fantastic driving experience... Torque in particular is another enjoyable driving experience factor that was sadly missed. In particular for those of us who have driven vehicles with a handful of torque. I get why it was sacrificed... buuuuut it would still be nice to have more in the future.

I'd still say you're definately getting your money's worth without a question.

Fingers crossed on some kind of power upgrade for the '14. I don't imagine STI coming until MY '15 though. They have other kits they are offering first and it wouldn't make sense to put them all out together. I wouldn't be dissappointed to see it for '14 if I am wrong though.

Anyway, they are not muscle cars... so if you can get by the narrowmindedness expressed by the blind fanboy's... and see it for what it is... and maybe even read up on the intent behind the engineering and design for this car... They definately succeeded.

-It's small inside and out. Back seats are pretty bad. As the salesman so eloquently put it... "Uhm... Sir those are not for adults. Children only!"

Anyone 6' + claiming to fit back there is blowing smoke. At 5'9 with the driver seat in my driving position, it was "interesting" to say the least. No adult is going to sit straight or lean back in the rear seats. You could fit two people back there if you needed to for a short time.

But it's a 2 door coupe, so if you are considering buying it.. You're not buying it for back seat practicality. And to be honest, it's ridiculous to even consider the back seat of a 2 door sports coupe as a factor in purchasing one.

-Visibility is a lot better in the twins, than the Camaro. But then most cars on the market have better visibility than the Camaro.

-BRZ Looks better in person than in photo's but still not as good as a Camaro. At least BRZ production #'s are rather limited compared to FR-S and... definately when compared to Mustangs/Camaros. So you'll run into less of them on the street.

But if looks is a key concern for you, the Camaro is your pea****.

-Interior... It's kind of a no brainer given the cost difference, but the interior of the twins is no where near that of he Camaro's.
The FR-S interior is pretty awful. The BRZ is better, and it's cheaper to do a bumper swap than an interior swap. So even tho I prefer the FR-S front end... I'm lookin at a BRZ and then a bumper swap. Sorry but I hate the Mazda smiley face look on the BRZ and can't fathom why they went that route just to be "different". "Different" isn't always a good thing.

Anyway... in the context of a daily driver. The BRZ a solid choice hands down, as long as you don't need cargo space or back seat passenger space or torque.

I am holding off until I hear about the official 2014 changes/updates/offerings.

The downsides for me... Sound. I am fond of v8's.
Torque.... I am fond of torque.
Power.. Just a little more please?
"Practicality" - - Not a generous amount of space for cargo or 2+ people.

The upsides?
Fun
Purchase price
Fun
MPG
Fun
Cheaper insurance.
FUUUUN...

[Ken_]

These cars are nothing more than an homage to the Toyota AE-86 of 1983-1987. In the USA, they were called Toyota Corolla GTS. They were popular amongst the Asian community of SoCal, and there's still a demand for these. Most are however in the junkyards because the drift hype found most of them, and what ones are available are commanding starting upwards of $10-$15K in pristine condition. As is it is now, it was then... underpowered but it came alive in the turns, corners and it didn't take much to break traction and throw the tail.

I had a couple of them.

I thought about getting the GT-86 (same as the BRZ and FR-S), but I will wait to see how the FI version does. With FI, the equation changes up radically in a car this light. To me, that's the fun-factor I want.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I sure wouldn't put them in the same catagory as the Camaro no matter if they were the exact same size.

no why would you one gets 5 years 100,000 bumper to bumper with extended and excludes hoses, brakes, belts and the like while the other is pure junk and for far less offers free oil changes and bumper to bumper including everything for 7 years, 100,000 miles. While not the same lines I would have to say it is on par for being what it is meant to be a teens car.