Shelby GT350 Mustang Owners File New Class Action Lawsuit Against Ford

[Ryephile]

To me, I can't envision a scenario where the GT350 owners will win. Maybe my view on this is more pragmatic. When the GT350 came out, you could pick either the Touring pack, or the Track pack. The fact that they're even offering a Track pack tells me it's not ready out of the box. It's comparable to a 1SS versus a 1SS 1LE, the 1LE proves that GM knew there was room for improvement in a track context. A GT350 without the Track pack, is like having a 1SS without the 1LE pack. It'll take some development to get it to the same level as either with their comparable track packs.

The GT350 owners willingly chose the Touring pack, or no pack at all. They knew the Track pack was there, but chose not to buy it. Now they're complaining their car doesn't have the Track pack. That's not how it works. It's also why Ford made the Track pack standard recently; so they wouldn't have to futz with the asterisk in their advertising verbiage.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

To me, I can't envision a scenario where the GT350 owners will win. Maybe my view on this is more pragmatic. When the GT350 came out, you could pick either the Touring pack, or the Track pack. The fact that they're even offering a Track pack tells me it's not ready out of the box. It's comparable to a 1SS versus a 1SS 1LE, the 1LE proves that GM knew there was room for improvement in a track context. A GT350 without the Track pack, is like having a 1SS without the 1LE pack. It'll take some development to get it to the same level as either with their comparable track packs.

The GT350 owners willingly chose the Touring pack, or no pack at all. They knew the Track pack was there, but chose not to buy it. Now they're complaining their car doesn't have the Track pack. That's not how it works. It's also why Ford made the Track pack standard recently; so they wouldn't have to futz with the asterisk in their advertising verbiage.

Not that your overall point is wrong but the 1SS vs 1LE comparison is completely different in this case. The SS cars are track capable as is and can run on the track just as long as the 1LE can...because they have the same additional coolers. The 1LE is just more track focused.

I agree don't think these guys have a leg to stand on. Surprised guys who even bought the base or tech package cars even let their cars out of their garages to get on a track to begin with. Wonder how many of them paid ADM too.

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[Harit0]

So I buy a Gt350 and I can't push the car hard? It needs to be babied?

I don't agree with FORD and I hope the GT350 owners win. This is how I look at it, If I purchase a Gt350 without the track package, I should be able to use on the track, HOWEVER THE TRACK PACKAGE SHOULD IMPROVE MY TRACK TIMES. Not eliminate me from it

[90503]

At first I thought it was all total bs....except for that a lot of the GT350 guys agreed they needed coolers after discovering limp-mode, but Ford would void their warranty if they installed them...They were getting limp mode even on the street, not always just the track....So they were screwed either way....

Plus, I sort of agree that who really reads their owner's manual prior to purchasing the car?....Even if they weren't foolish enough to believe the track hype before purchasing, they were still screwed...

It will be interesting how this turns out.....If the courts rule in the plaintiff's favor, it could be a bad precedent that will have all manufacturers gun-shy about making track cars....

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by 90503

At first I thought it was all total bs....except for that a lot of the GT350 guys agreed they needed coolers after discovering limp-mode, but Ford would void their warranty if they installed them...They were getting limp mode even on the street, not always just the track....So they were screwed either way....

It will be interesting how this turns out.....If the courts rule in the plaintiff's favor, it could be a bad precedent that will have all manufacturers gun-shy about making track cars....

A good point. I can't remember but think the guys getting it on the street were doing roll racing. Which still is kind of poor engineering if it can't be driven at speed for any length of time.

[90503]

I think part of the reason this issue has gotten to the lawsuit point, is that even if a GT350 owner wanted coolers to avoid limp mode, Ford would void their warranty...Plus limp mode on the street was a common occurrence...Seems a lot of guys were willing to agree they needed coolers, but were left to twist in the wind by Ford...

Some good-will by Ford could have avoided this whole thing perhaps...

[WhyUMad1LE]

When I was shopping for a car, I was well aware that only the track package GT350 came with the coolers.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by 90503

I think part of the reason this issue has gotten to the lawsuit point, is that even if a GT350 owner wanted coolers to avoid limp mode, Ford would void their warranty...Plus limp mode on the street was a common occurrence...Seems a lot of guys were willing to agree they needed coolers, but were left to twist in the wind by Ford...

Some good-will by Ford could have avoided this whole thing perhaps...

Limp mode on the street is not a common occurrence at all. It's just anecdotes and tech owners saying that to plead their case, but there is no actual evidence of that occurring, even in stop and go traffic. The only way to get into limp mode on the street is to drive recklessly beyond what is lawful.

[90503]

Just in looking at the Ford forum, opinions even from owners run the whole spectrum....

Just about everyone agrees it will get ugly and probably not much good will come out of it for anybody....Perhaps a little good-will by Ford could have avoided the whole thing...We'll see...

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78931

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 90503

I think part of the reason this issue has gotten to the lawsuit point, is that even if a GT350 owner wanted coolers to avoid limp mode, Ford would void their warranty...Plus limp mode on the street was a common occurrence...Seems a lot of guys were willing to agree they needed coolers, but were left to twist in the wind by Ford...

Some good-will by Ford could have avoided this whole thing perhaps...

I can see two possibilities why Ford won't honor the warranty if coolers are added. The original (low) base car MSRP didn't charge enough to warranty track use and/or they don't want to acknowledge the cars need them.

My earlier point regarding 2014 post on this topic is that there were a lot of people that recognized the limitations of the base cars right away. They were not intended for track use and it was discussed and is in the manual. It shouldn't surprise. Anyway, I'd sure like to see video of a street driven overheating scenario that they will provide the court.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

No its not. In a court of public opinion, it's clear that you are a dummy (the purchaser of the car, not you YOU) if you expect a car with no coolers to perform in any capacity at a track. It's stupid to have thought otherwise. If they wanted to TRACK their car, they should have bought a TRACK PACK car. Very simple. These people chose the technology (or base) and expected track pack performance.

It was pretty clear from the get go which one would be track worthy, and which would not.

It's only clear to those who did extensive research. I may be a dummy but ford advertised the GT350 as the most track capable mustang ever. Not the R, not the track pack, but the GT350. To say the car has no coolers is not true. It still has a radiator doesn't it? The only people who are going to know what to look for are people who are experienced in driving on the track and most of those people would obviously opt for the track pack.

How about this: Corvette Z06 goes into limp mode on the track. Owners get pissed, GM says tough cookies. Owners respond: don't you advertise that you will warranty the car if anything breaks on the track? GM responds: yes and we stand by that, but limp mode is the car protecting itself on the track. It is not broken and we make no guarantees of performance on the track. Your car is fine deal with it.

To me it's not a performance car if it can't handle a level 1 HPDE or some autocross duty with small normal maintenance type upgrades (brakes, tires, fluids). It's a design flaw in my opinion. Again what happens in court is a different story.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Difference between the GT350 & the ZL1 (or the SS for that mater): GM intended the regular car to be track capable, knowing that most would never use it as such.

Ford did NOT intend the base GT350 to be track capable, knowing that most people would never take it to a track. However, they knew that some would track it and therefore offered a track package with those specific buyers in mind.

The people suing Ford knowingly bought the car without getting the track package and then proceeded to take it to a track anyways. That is on them.

Think of it like this: on pickup trucks, there exist towing packages that can increase the tow rating of the truck by several thousand pounds. Whose fault is it when someone takes a half ton truck that isn't so equipped, hooks up a 12,000 lb trailer (instead of the 8500 lbs they should have), and cooks the transmission or causes some other failure. The manufacturer for not giving every single truck the maximum capacity, or the owner for exceeding the known capabilities of his truck?

In my opinion, both of those scenarios make just as much sense as suing because your non-track pack GT350 was not track capable. How much more obvious does it need to be? Put it in the owners manual? Oh, right they pretty much did:

https://owner.ford.com/tools/account...tang&year=2016

So, they outright say that the GT350 needs coolers for track days and sustained high speed driving (coolers that come with the track pack and R model). And, they warn that it will go into limp mode if it starts to overheat.

Sounds like none of the folks suing bothered to spend a couple minutes reading their manual.

You know when you get the owners manual: after you buy the car!
Meanwhile they advertise the car with stuff like this:
https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...press-kit.html
Some quotes:
The original Shelby GT350 introduced in 1965 established the Mustang’s performance credentials. The all-new Shelby GT350 Mustang, featuring the most powerful naturally aspirated Ford production engine ever, is a world-class performance vehicle, designed to tackle the planet’s most challenging roads – an all-day track car that’s also street legal.

I like your pickup truck analogy. How about this. You buy a truck but you won't be doing any serious towing. They offer the towing package but you don't buy it. You deside to haul a 4'x8' uhaul trailer cause that is the smallest one you can get and any truck should be able to haul this small of a trailer. The Tundra can, the Silverado can, the Dodge can, heck even the Ford Ranger can and it's even smaller than your new F150 and made by the same company. Hell even cars can haul this little trailer if you put a hitch on them. You get on the rode and within 10 minutes your car has gone into transmission protection mode and limited you to 10 miles per hour.
Now Ford has been advertising how great this truck is and how it out tows everything on the road and its the king of trucks. Everyone knows you need the tow package if you are going to tow anything though.

[Expunge]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

It could be extremely successful if they were expecting 10% take rate. Even more successful if they had expected a 3% rate. If they were hoping for 40% it would be a mild disappointment, and 30% could be considered an outright failure if they were planning selling 2/3 of cars with a track pack. On top of that, if the sales mix shifted from where Ford expected it to be towards cars with higher margins, they're going to be pretty happy with some doing 'worse' than expected.

Of course, if total sales are above the targeted amount, they can hit a lower percentage for one or two packages and they would still rightfully be considered successful. 25% of 6500 is bigger than 30% of 5000. Conversely, if total sales are below expectations, one package having a better share isn't all that much comfort (35% of 3500 is less than 30% of 5000)

And don't forget ... there were 4 ways to get a GT350. Base, track, tech, and R. On average, each has to be 25% of sales. Sure, the R was intentionally limited (as I understand it) to something like 10% of sales. That means that the other 3 would have to average 30%, certainly no more than 33%.

Point is, without a lot more information (that only Ford knows) the percentage sales for each package is pretty much meaningless.

Alright Mr. Accountant.. I see how you are manipulating the numbers. But I am not letting you get away with it.

The fact is they went from 29% of these year one cars get the goodies needed to run on a road track, to 100% of year two cars get the necessary equipment to run on a road track, and oh btw increase the 'base' Mustang GT350 price from 50K to 57K.

Why not make the tech package standard as well since it had a greater percentage of purchase versus the track pack if we are to use your reasoning?

Like I said earlier.. I don't care who wins, but I find Ford's actions disingenuous. IMO they screwed over first year owners, which further enforces my personal choice to never buy first year cars.

[qcman]

Originally Posted by detltu;9644151[B

The all-new Shelby GT350 Mustang, featuring the most powerful naturally aspirated Ford production engine ever,[/B] is a world-class performance vehicle, designed to tackle the planet’s most challenging roads – an all-day track car that’s also street legal.

Yup but I think they meant you could go to the track and watch others cars race all day