GOT EST FOR HEADERS CAI TUNE

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by Andy@Livernois

I think you are completely misreading the quote. I'll play along, even though the pricing in the column is meaningless (all except for the final amount)

1. you state you paid $300 for a tune in the past, that's perfectly fine. If you look, he's "paying" 300 for a custom dyno tune.

2. You state deleting a handheld tuner will save him $500. How? even if you went by the line pricing, the tuner is $300 (again, the line item pricing is meaningless)

3. Really? you don't want to change the plugs and wires while there is zero labor associated with them? Why would anyone skip out on this just to have to do it in a year, and then spend an extra hour or so doing something that took about 3 extra minutes while doing the headers?

4. the LAST thing you should be price shopping for is a dyno tune. It's the most critical item on a successful build, and the first thing people want to cheap out on. Would you price shop a doctor when you needed surgery? Or would you want to know who does the best work and go to them? The Calibration world has many parallels to the medical field. There are hacks out there, and truly gifted craftsmen. I know what side of the fence I am on when it comes to that, but think about it the big picture before being hung up on a price.

I'll address these one by one. But as you said, I am having difficulty reading the quote because both images are cut off. It is definitely possible something is lost in translation.

1.) $300 is what I paid was for a custom dynotune out the door.

2.) I said the tuner+plugs+wires was about $500. He doesn't "need" plugs and wires, the stockers are very good and should last nearly 100,000 miles. I would take the stockers over most other brands, anyway.

3.) Because there is no point in paying for it. The stock plugs and wires are just fine. That's money that can be spent elsewhere, or saved. Just because you're taking off a couple parts doesn't mean everything else needs to be changed. Besides, these motors are designed to run with those plugs. Changing plugs and wires could yield *worse* performance. Why would you say plugs and wires only last a year? They're rated for 100,000 miles of service life. That's 7-10 years for a daily driver, and if it isn't your daily driver you'll probably sell it with stock plugs.

4.) Which is why I said he should spend $300-400 on a good dynotune. That's not an area you skimp on. I was advising him on how he could save costs, namely:

a.) Buying the material himself and saving mark-up.
b.) Eliminating the handheld tuner. A good dynotune on a bolt-on car is all you need.
c.) Eliminating the plugs and wires because they are unnecessary and won't add any performance, or could degrade performance in the long run.
d.) Doing the labor himself for the header install.

Even if he decides to go to you and have the headers installed and get the dynotune, he can save a lot of money on things he really doesn't need by taking a few of these steps. I'm a contractor by trade, and a partial sale is better than no sale.

[2014ssblk]

Wow i should reread before i post

[Pluto]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

I'll address these one by one. But as you said, I am having difficulty reading the quote because both images are cut off. It is definitely possible something is lost in translation.

1.) $300 is what I paid was for a custom dynotune out the door.

2.) I said the tuner+plugs+wires was about $500. He doesn't "need" plugs and wires, the stockers are very good and should last nearly 100,000 miles. I would take the stockers over most other brands, anyway.

3.) Because there is no point in paying for it. The stock plugs and wires are just fine. That's money that can be spent elsewhere, or saved. Just because you're taking off a couple parts doesn't mean everything else needs to be changed. Besides, these motors are designed to run with those plugs. Changing plugs and wires could yield *worse* performance. Why would you say plugs and wires only last a year? They're rated for 100,000 miles of service life. That's 7-10 years for a daily driver, and if it isn't your daily driver you'll probably sell it with stock plugs.

4.) Which is why I said he should spend $300-400 on a good dynotune. That's not an area you skimp on. I was advising him on how he could save costs, namely:

a.) Buying the material himself and saving mark-up.
b.) Eliminating the handheld tuner. A good dynotune on a bolt-on car is all you need.
c.) Eliminating the plugs and wires because they are unnecessary and won't add any performance, or could degrade performance in the long run.
d.) Doing the labor himself for the header install.

Even if he decides to go to you and have the headers installed and get the dynotune, he can save a lot of money on things he really doesn't need by taking a few of these steps. I'm a contractor by trade, and a partial sale is better than no sale.

What if the spark plug wires rub on the header? It's kind of a common problem and a problem I just ran into myself just this week...just a thought

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by Pluto

What if the spark plug wires rub on the header? It's kind of a common problem and a problem I just ran into myself just this week...just a thought

During the install? You should absolutely remove the plugs and wires prior to installation of new headers. Remove them first before you take the manifolds off.

Then after the headers are installed, reinstall the stock plugs and wires.

[Pluto]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

During the install? You should absolutely remove the plugs and wires prior to installation of new headers. Remove them first before you take the manifolds off.

Then after the headers are installed, reinstall the stock plugs and wires.

I would imagine so lol...but I'm asking what if they rub afterward? One of mine way sitting right on the primary after install...of course you have to remove them lol

[jcamo]

Originally Posted by Pluto

I would imagine so lol...but I'm asking what if they rub afterward? One of mine way sitting right on the primary after install...of course you have to remove them lol

Seems to me if they rub they will rub old ones or new ones ....Maybe I don't understand what your saying. but I don't think I would buy new plugs or wires.

[christianchevell]

first the TR6 ix plugs are better than the stock plugs for eliminating any spots of trouble on the air fuel map of the cars engine in the ECU during a tune.... the price is good second as a dyno tune runs $500 and they are going to give you a tuner loaded with the tune it sounds like if you ever need to go back to stock... I would talk to them about this as a dyno tune does so much more than most handheld tuners with all the parameters that can be altered and changed. Look up info on the Tr6 plugs and you will after researching enough know they are the sole plug I would swap into my modded engine besides stock. Second the reason you are even doubting if its worth it is because you might not know of Livernois, If I had it my way I would have went there and I am in Oregon. You will have heard of other famous places like Calloway, or Hennessey, or others that I think Livernois's prices are better in many aspects for a build without all the stupid frills like custom badging, special decals and embroidered headrests for ten grand.......

[Andy@Livernois]

This is another reason we replace the wires, the stock wires have a very large boot on them that many times do contact the headers, causing the boot to burn. Worse yet, sometimes the wire touches and burns through. Many people then spend money on heat socks to protect them. Instead of doing something like this, we put in MSD wires which, not only are a much better performing wire, but have a much smaller diameter boot, and the boot itself is flexible, allowing you to position it away from the headers.

On the front of the stock plugs being "rated for 100,000 miles"

Remember, it says "up to" 100,000 miles. Also, this is on a completely stock car. A tune, headers, intake, etc all will dramatically shorten the life of the plug. We also move to a copper plug, which carries much more energy and handles heat much better than the fine wire iridium plugs do. They have a shorter life than iridiums, but that's ok. Have you ever tried to change plugs that were in a car for 100k? Not fun at all.

If we are really honest with ourselves, all of these mods are to increase performance, so why would you want to skimp and reuse stock parts that can inhibit performance? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Of course, to each their own, but there is no way that we would ever skimp on a job as we feel it's a case of penny wise and pound foolish. The honest way to look at it is if the customer cannot afford an extra ~90 for plugs and wires, he really, really should not be modifying their car in the first place. The programmer? Absolutely, it is an optional piece, but many people request it to be included as they like having their stock tune at their disposal at all times.

[Andy@Livernois]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

first the TR6 ix plugs are better than the stock plugs for eliminating any spots of trouble on the air fuel map of the cars engine in the ECU during a tune.... the price is good second as a dyno tune runs $500 and they are going to give you a tuner loaded with the tune it sounds like if you ever need to go back to stock... I would talk to them about this as a dyno tune does so much more than most handheld tuners with all the parameters that can be altered and changed. Look up info on the Tr6 plugs and you will after researching enough know they are the sole plug I would swap into my modded engine besides stock. Second the reason you are even doubting if its worth it is because you might not know of Livernois, If I had it my way I would have went there and I am in Oregon. You will have heard of other famous places like Calloway, or Hennessey, or others that I think Livernois's prices are better in many aspects for a build without all the stupid frills like custom badging, special decals and embroidered headrests for ten grand.......

Thank you for the kind words. We definitely approach it to be what we feel is a great value! We determine what we feel people should have to ensure a successful build without including things that add no performance or durability. We try to spend people's hard earned money the exact same way we would spend it if the car was our own. If the car doesn't need a clutch, we don't force one down their throat. If it doesn't need suspension upgrades, we don't either. But if it needs a fuel pump, it's getting one. These of course are just examples, but just some insight into how we approach each build. If we educate someone as to a part not being needed, and they still want it, that's their choice, so long as there aren't any negatives associated with it.

[Andy@Livernois]

Originally Posted by KLR ZL1

Actually they are charging for 2 dynos. $510 for baseline and Rotofab install and $300 for the finish tune. But if they are putting it on a dyno why would you need a handheld tuner? Tell them no baseline dyno, no plugs and ask about the handheld tuner then putting the Car on the DYNO. Handhelds are for the do it yourself in your garage guy. When I had my Kooks headers installed on my 2010 SS it was $800 with a DYNO tune. I bought the headers with highflow cats and Rotofab myself and installed the Rotofab myself. It is easy. That seems really high IMO.

guys, there is no charge for baselineing the car, and why would we ever skip it? Wouldn't you want to know what your car picked up? I know I would.

We itemize our services, meaning since we are baselining the car, it's being notated as happening. Don't want a baseline? That's up to you, but it won't affect the pricing since it's a free service that comes with all installs.

The handheld tuner is to store our custom tune once done, and to put the car back to stock if he ever needs to. As I have posted a few times, it's the only item that's optional. However, it's not a "handheld programmer" it's a custom tune delivery device, meaning our custom dyno tune get's loaded onto it once done.

And, even though the pricing, again, are just meaningless place holders, you just stated $800 was a price you paid for less services, since you already had the intake on, and we are charging $810 including a baseline, installing the intake, and dyno tuning it. I am really confused where the issue is with what we are doing.

[KLR ZL1]

Originally Posted by Andy@Livernois

guys, there is no charge for baselineing the car, and why would we ever skip it? Wouldn't you want to know what your car picked up? I know I would.

We itemize our services, meaning since we are baselining the car, it's being notated as happening. Don't want a baseline? That's up to you, but it won't affect the pricing since it's a free service that comes with all installs.

The handheld tuner is to store our custom tune once done, and to put the car back to stock if he ever needs to. As I have posted a few times, it's the only item that's optional. However, it's not a "handheld programmer" it's a custom tune delivery device, meaning our custom dyno tune get's loaded onto it once done.

And, even though the pricing, again, are just meaningless place holders, you just stated $800 was a price you paid for less services, since you already had the intake on, and we are charging $810 including a baseline, installing the intake, and dyno tuning it. I am really confused where the issue is with what we are doing.

I apologize for that post. I did not see your explanation for the estimate. I was making my comments to the other post that I quoted. But after reading your post on the explanation I would agree that it is fair. I do know that y'all do very good work and are not one of those shops that pop up over night and think that they are a performance shop just because they can change parts. A good performance shop has a great tune person. Here in the Houston area there are a lot of parts changing shops that think they can tune because they have a DYNO. I have seen many cars damaged by bad tunes at the owners expense. I have only heard good things about Livernoise.

[Pluto]

Originally Posted by jcamo

Seems to me if they rub they will rub old ones or new ones ....Maybe I don't understand what your saying. but I don't think I would buy new plugs or wires.

Ok it's like this....

Remove stock setup
Install new headers
Reinstall stock plugs and wires
Realize at that point stock wires rub
Buy new wires
Wires don't rub
Problem fixed

End of story

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by Pluto

I would imagine so lol...but I'm asking what if they rub afterward? One of mine way sitting right on the primary after install...of course you have to remove them lol

If they rub after install, it's not going to matter what brand of plugs and wires you have. Route them differently. If it's that big of an issue because of the boot size, you can make some type of heat shield skirt.

[Pluto]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

If they rub after install, it's not going to matter what brand of plugs and wires you have. Route them differently. If it's that big of an issue because of the boot size, you can make some type of heat shield skirt.

I don't know man all I can say is one of mine sat on the primary after install and I just invested $70 extra to put new wires..what's $70? Might as well