02-13-2018, 07:26 AM | #57 | |
I used to be Dragoneye...
|
Quote:
http://www.thedrive.com/news/18218/a...kia-in-the-90s A company that can't sustain itself, even one as small as Tesla, has no business playing in this field...especially considering such criticisms were lodged against the other US manufacturers in the early 2000s. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...531-story.html http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla...roblem-2017-11 https://seekingalpha.com/article/412...rally-bankrupt https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...ing#gs.ec2LjMQ Finally, when you promise to build an EV for the masses...it better be for the masses, and attainable! Yet the "outdated" behemoth GM managed to beat them to the punch with a better product, after starting the process later... http://www.businessinsider.com/chevy...model-3-2018-1 http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevr...r-of-the-year/ Are GM, and Ford pillars of perfection? Hell no...Ford's engineers are lacking, and GM's advertising is...well, vanilla; and they both almost found themselves in a pit too deep to dig out of. But....Musk is no genius businessman and Tesla is far from the successful model for a car company of the future... He's an inventor and futurist...Tesla is a popular, but small car company in big trouble. |
|
02-13-2018, 08:01 AM | #58 |
Drives: 2SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: AK
Posts: 2,301
|
So the issue is that they have is meeting their production goals, well no kidding, we all know that. I thought you had some data on Model 3s on the road with quality problems or something.
Tesla has done something incredible by starting up an entirely new auto-maker and getting EVs on the road that everyday people can use. That doesn't mean they are for everyONE, but they are out there being used, even here in Alaska. You might irrationally hate them, but they work. That's the big difference between EVs as a concept and what some of the automakers have tinkered with over the years, and the reality today. Obviously, Tesla has to deliver on the Model 3s, we all know this. It could be make-or-break, but what they've done so far is nothing short of amazing. The way they generate cash is no different from any other start-up, but it has to transition to sustainability and they have to be able to bring these new technologies/products to the market. I could sit here and bring up the huge subsidies that Ford and GM got, but I feel that wouldn't be a very good use of my time, you can look it up yourself.
__________________
Everything happens for a reason, except when it doesn't, but even then, you can, in hindsight, fabricate a reason that satisfies your belief system.
2018 2SS 1LE 2023 Colorado ZR2 2022 Stinger GT-line AWD |
02-13-2018, 08:10 AM | #59 | |
220/221 whatever it takes
Drives: See sig.... Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lafayette In
Posts: 1,132
|
Quote:
__________________
Brent
2022 BMW X5 M50i 2022 Ram TRX 2021 GT500 CFHP 2016 Challenger Hellcat A8 1058whp/898wtq 1970 Chevelle SS396 4spd |
|
02-13-2018, 08:40 AM | #60 | |
Drives: 2015 SW 1SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Brighton, CO
Posts: 2,736
|
Quote:
__________________
“The Eagles and the Captain and Tennille ruled the airwaves, and we were the answer to it.” - Joey Ramone
|
|
02-13-2018, 09:14 AM | #61 | |
I used to be Dragoneye...
|
Quote:
Please read back on some of my posts...I don't *hate* Tesla. I see them for what they are...a small automaker making some big news, but small sales. And their balance sheet is terrifying. They have made some incredible strides in EV development. But they haven't been the only ones to do so...nor were they the first. I do challenge your statement that they build EVs "that everybody can use"...because they started business producing the roadster...an extremely niche car that cost $100,000. Their next model was the S...another $100,000 car. with any options...and then the X, an $80,000 vehicle. While they function like a car should (most of the time)...I wouldn't praise them for building the everyman's EV. The Nissan Leaf and Volt made it to market years ago as $~40k-$50k EVs. Even the EV1, the industry's first attempt at a modern electric car, started with a price equivalent to $55k today. No, it didn't succeed in the marketplace...but we're talking about affordable EVs...until Model 3....Tesla wasn't it. Then there's the Model III...which is not the *first* affordable EV as we know it; the Chevy Bolt beat them to the punch...and they can't seem to handle the stresses of true volume mass production. So sure, it's not news and we all know that, yes - but that's a BIG deal. The difference between the subsidies and tax benefits companies like GM and Ford get vs Tesla is the scale....GM and Ford are GIANT companies...even if they got the same $$ amount as Tesla has, it amounts to a fraction of their operating costs. Tesla, however, requires these to stay in business. They have since the beginning, but they're not a startup anymore...it's not smart business. And to take deposits from people, promising them a car in 12-18 months, or longer in the case of the roadster and truck...just to fund their hemorrhaging business...only delays the inevitable...because what will fund the production of those, even more expensive vehicles? If this were GM, Ford, or Chrysler, there would be hoards of people shouting "let them die, they don't know how to do business"..... In that same time table...GM will be shifting nearly a quarter of it's total volume production to all-electric vehicles of many different shapes and sizes. Including at least one that is 100% autonomous with not even a steering wheel, meant for Lyft-style transportation fleets. I believe, in the long-run, Tesla will be a flash in the pan. Impressive, influential...but not nearly as successful and world-shaking as Elon Musk dreams about. Which is ironic...because his initial business model was to simply produce parts and components for other manufacturer's EVs, never full cars...but none of them were interested. Again, I don't hate Tesla...and some of the things they have brought to market are pretty cool. But I feel like my thoughts on this are very level-headed and rational. |
|
02-13-2018, 09:42 AM | #62 |
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 14,432
|
In regards to affordability and a car for everybody, it looks like many of those will take a hit in the affordability category once the tax credit is used up before they take delivery...
From the link I posted earlier: "Delivery dates have been pushed further into the future for “many” reservation holders, and “customers who waited in line in March 2016 to place deposits for the first Model 3s will have to be patient even longer,” Bloomberg reported Feb. 8. The tax credit implications McCaffery referred to concern the $2,500 to $7,500 federal credit for electric-vehicle purchases that starts phasing out when a car maker hits 200,000 vehicles sold domestically, a number Tesla is expected to hit this year. Tesla is making higher-end Model 3s first, costing $50,000 and boasting a longer range than the base-price $35,000 version. That means, according to the delivery-time notice from Tesla that McCaffrey posted on Twitter, that while reservation holders for the long-range car have delivery scheduled for March to May, those who ordered the cheaper car or the dual-motor, all-wheel-drive version have delivery set at “late 2018.”..." Not all doom and gloom quite yet....Most are still "optimistic"....but I believe if they can't get a Tesla, they won't buy from anyone else....Call it fanboyism or whatever, I see it as loyalty to an entrepreneur who will eventually keep his promise... Tesla is building these cars with a "cause" behind it....All the others manufacturers are forced to make these vehicles reluctantly and after tagging along with Tesla's lead in this area....Yep, it's a lot of hype and Kool-Aid, but what isn't when it comes to understanding the car manufacturing industry?...I say, give Tesla the benefit of the doubt. He has a loyal following and will make good at some point. |
02-13-2018, 11:45 AM | #63 | ||
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,024
|
Quote:
Quote:
Also agree. Tesla needs to really start delivering on some of their promises, the rate they burn through cash is insane. What I think Tesla really nailed with the Model S and the Model 3 is the look. They don't look like a Leaf, they don't look like a Bolt. They don't look like a Prius. All those econo cars just kind of have that boring look to them. The Tesla cars, they look like cars, they look like they have some soul to them. They just need to get their business side running a lot smoother. |
||
02-13-2018, 11:51 AM | #64 | |
I used to be Dragoneye...
|
Quote:
I'm still not sold on the way the front of the model 3 looks....I am reminded of Michael Jackson post-nose.... But I think the S looks gorgeous. Every once in a while one drives by near me and I can't help but stare. Very classy...but sporty. |
|
02-13-2018, 12:01 PM | #65 |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,024
|
The first time I saw a Model S in person I literally was like what the hell is that thing its gorgeous!!!!
|
02-13-2018, 12:03 PM | #66 |
Drives: Race Car Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seffner, FL
Posts: 6,226
|
|
02-13-2018, 05:05 PM | #67 |
Drives: Love the one you're with Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Downtown Charlie Brown
Posts: 11,850
|
Hahaha! I love this forum. You guys never fail to entertain. People will get upset over anything at all these days. Lol
|
02-13-2018, 06:20 PM | #68 |
Drives: 2012 45TH AE SS Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 553
|
I have a question I hope one of you guys can answer because it sounds like you’re the experts... from what I understand is almost every auto manufacturers have said they plan on having a fully electric fleet by some time in the next 10 years or so. With that said how will I charge my fully electric Chevrolet on a road trip? Right now tesla has invested tons of money on their supercharger network and it’s going to continue to grow over time. Do other auto manufacturers have an answer for this?
|
02-13-2018, 06:31 PM | #69 | |
AROD55
Drives: 1955 Chevy Bel Air Hardtop Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bonita, Ca. 91902
Posts: 1,863
|
Quote:
|
|
02-13-2018, 06:37 PM | #70 | |
General Motors Aficionado
Drives: 2023 GMC Canyon, 2020 Colorado Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 37,371
|
Quote:
__________________
2023 GMC Canyon Elevation 2020 Chevrolet Colorado W/T Extended Cab (State-issued) |
|
|
|