LS7 engine swap - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

CC Performance · 06-07-2011, 11:18 AM

Well if your talking boost then the LSx block should be limited to a 434... (unless you get the tall deck) or even a 427 for savings on piston costs...

The sleeve length of the cylinder is only so long. When you increase stroke like you would to get the 454 you have to make compromises.. and its the piston that gets compromised and as such is not ideal for boost

you can make 5-600 with the 427 or 434 before boost.
Yes you will need new heads and a cam, the whole thing will need to be reconfigured properly to make the power you want to make.

I would go iron if using FI, iron is more durable than aluminum.. if it were n/a I would stay aluminum for the weight savings

cost is so dependent on head and valvetrain choice its hard to just grab a number out of the air but 13000- 14500 is about the avg cost of our 434 build to make 1000 hp... complete from heads to oil pan.. intake is not included

mike25 · 06-07-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC Performance

Well if your talking boost then the LSx block should be limited to a 434... (unless you get the tall deck) or even a 427 for savings on piston costs...

The sleeve length of the cylinder is only so long. When you increase stroke like you would to get the 454 you have to make compromises.. and its the piston that gets compromised and as such is not ideal for boost

you can make 5-600 with the 427 or 434 before boost.
Yes you will need new heads and a cam, the whole thing will need to be reconfigured properly to make the power you want to make.

I would go iron if using FI, iron is more durable than aluminum.. if it were n/a I would stay aluminum for the weight savings

cost is so dependent on head and valvetrain choice its hard to just grab a number out of the air but 13000- 14500 is about the avg cost of our 434 build to make 1000 hp... complete from heads to oil pan.. intake is not included

I was originally just considering staying na, and still/ probably will. I was looking at some different setups and was just curious. What would you personally recommend for an all around great performing na motor? I really like the idea of a 454 lsx na engine. What kind of power range could I exPect with an aggressive but drivable cam? I'm planning on upgrading gears/ clutch for time being. Optimistically I would like to be around the 6-700hp mark na at most.

pgviper · 06-07-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC Performance

We have a 457 that would eat your dads old bbc 454 for lunch, . we use your LS3 block to so its a sleeper... if you want to look at it that way...

How much would a build like this go for, no need for exact numbers but just curious for an approximation?

His is a dedicated race car with a full roll cage, completely stripped interior, etc... I wouldn't want something like this, I would want something that I could drive around on a day to day basis if I wanted to (granted it isn't raining, snowing, hailing, no salt is on the ground and there is no construction on the route that I am driving on lol).

CC Performance · 06-07-2011, 11:45 AM

I'll answer both you at the same time because it essentially the same info..LOL

My 457 makes approx 750 at the crank on pump gas.. its a 247/263 cam on a 115 lsa
It drives like normal until you hit the gas then its all hell breaking lose. In a 3300 lb car the engine will run mid to low 9's this is all on pump gas...
The mannerisms are that of as small cammed regular engine... you know there is something there but its not a challenge to drive.. the cubic inches make up for all of it... we run bigger cams in a 408 to be honest and if i was looking for all out top end this car would have a bigger cam... but its all about the combination.. the cross section of the heads.. etc.. making big power without stuffing a blower on is really where the expert engine builders come into play... anyone and I mean anyone can make 1000 hp with a blower.. its not hard to do at all.. just give it enough fuel and boost .... I'm an all motor kind of guy but we build boosted engines all the time...LOL

We offer the 457 with TFS 245 heads on top for $16550, or more if you go with better heads. I have All Pro heads on my engine with titanium valves... and there are heads one step better but we're talking about $4500 and $7000 upgrades to better heads from the $16550...

My car is 4150 lbs with me in it and 1/3 tank of gas.. I can drift when ever I want there are no tricks to it either... You hit a certain rpm and the tires break free simple as that.. its more power than the street can hold..
I drive it in the rain without issue, to the grocery store or dropping the kids off at school.. at the same time it will walk/run away from just about anything on the road... there is always someone with more power.. you run into them eventually ...LOL
I have 3.89 gears and of course a full suspension, 9" rear, Watts link... etc.. the car is built to make power and lay it down and get around the corners

Cam 427 · 06-07-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgviper

I have to admit, opening your hood and showing off an ls7 would be pretty sick. I'm all about naturally aspirated so I don't think I would ever go the lsx route

Other than a slight difference of the LS7 intake manifold, the engine looks pretty much the same as the LS3.

mike25 · 06-07-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC Performance

I'll answer both you at the same time because it essentially the same info..LOL

My 457 makes approx 750 at the crank on pump gas.. its a 247/263 cam on a 115 lsa
It drives like normal until you hit the gas then its all hell breaking lose. In a 3300 lb car the engine will run mid to low 9's this is all on pump gas...
The mannerisms are that of as small cammed regular engine... you know there is something there but its not a challenge to drive.. the cubic inches make up for all of it... we run bigger cams in a 408 to be honest and if i was looking for all out top end this car would have a bigger cam... but its all about the combination.. the cross section of the heads.. etc.. making big power without stuffing a blower on is really where the expert engine builders come into play... anyone and I mean anyone can make 1000 hp with a blower.. its not hard to do at all.. just give it enough fuel and boost .... I'm an all motor kind of guy
but we build boosted engines all the time...LOL

We offer the 457 with TFS 245 heads on top for $16550, or more if you go with better heads. I have All Pro heads on my engine with titanium valves... and there are heads one step better but we're talking about $4500 and $7000 upgrades to better heads from the $16550...

My car is 4150 lbs with me in it and 1/3 tank of gas.. I can drift when ever I want there are no tricks to it either... You hit a certain rpm and the tires break free simple as that.. its more power than the street can hold..
I drive it in the rain without issue, to the grocery store or dropping the kids off at school.. at the same time it will walk/run away from just about anything on
the road... there is always someone with more power.. you run into them eventually ...LOL
I have 3.89 gears and of course a full suspension, 9" rear, Watts link... etc.. the car is built to make power and lay it down and get around the corners

So with that being said, what size motor would you reccomend as a good na app capable of the 600+ mark? Is the 457 cost considerably
More than the 454 to build?

CC Performance · 06-07-2011, 04:30 PM

They are similar in cost.. If your going 454 in aluminum its about the same price, the 457 is a little more... For the power you want you build the most cubes you can afford. We're doing a 503 for someone that is one step better/bigger but its a tall deck.

The LSX iron 454 is less money but again it comes down to what heads are on top but the aluminum 454 will be better power to weight ratio and more money

PfadtRacing · 06-08-2011, 03:40 PM

We actually have an LS7 in our shop car. We decided to use the LS9 dry sump, located the sump tank into the rear, designed a custom crank pulley which was manufactured by ATI to retain all of the LS3 accessories. Running a Katech LS9 clutch the car looks, performs and feels like a stock vehicle. We wanted a setup to get us reliably to 550ish hp and retain stock or nearly stock manners and this combination hits the mark.

Here are some pictures from the engine bay, pardon the camera phone pics. Also notice the clearance between the valve cover and the strut tower brace. We have a set of custom engine mounts that drops the overall position of the engine down... lowering the entire weight of the motor drops the Center of Gravity pretty effectively. Keep in mind this ONLY WILL WORK FOR DRY SUMPED CARS. There is less header to ground clearance if you're running aggressive headers, but with proper suspension tuning and careful driving it's still possible to daily drive this combination!

Would there be interest in us selling LS family engine mounts for the Camaro that actually drop the position of the engine on dry sumped motors?

SparkyDL75 · 10-24-2011, 10:41 PM

Pfadt, what would that setup in your shop car cost for my 2010 SS? i have been looking at superchargers but think swapping in an LS7 would be sweet. If I do an LS7 swap I definatley want to keep the dry sump oil system.

PfadtRacing · 10-25-2011, 02:20 PM

It's definitely not cheap, and probably not a swap that's easilly done on your own. We had to design our own custom crank pulley to retain the use of all the stock LS3 accessories, along with a lot of other custom doodads that you don't think about until you get elbows deep into the project. As far as ultimate power output is concerned there are definitely easier ways to go.

For what it's worth, the car put down 515 at the wheels here at 4500' elevation in Utah on the JDP Motorsports dyno.

10-24-2011, 10:41 PM	#23
SparkyDL75 SparkyDL75 Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS CGM/Grey Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: KY Posts: 376 View My Garage	Pfadt, what would that setup in your shop car cost for my 2010 SS? i have been looking at superchargers but think swapping in an LS7 would be sweet. If I do an LS7 swap I definatley want to keep the dry sump oil system. __________________ 2010 CGM 2SS/RS M6 LS3 Black/Gray Exterior American Racing BLVD Black w/Machined(20x10) Mickey Thompson Street Comps(275/40 & 305/35) Suspension Pedders Pace Car Pkg w/ZL1 Upgrade; Pedders Upper & Lower Control Arm, Steering, & Differential Mount Bushings; Pedders SS Brake Lines; Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates; ZL1 Toe Link; Hawk Performance Ceramic brake pads Drivetrain Maggie2300(8psi-3.4pulley); CompCam; 85lb injectors; ZL1 fuel pump; ZR1 MAP; Centerforce DYAD Twin Disc clutch; Stainless Works LT headers; QTP Cutouts; Rotofab intake; RX catch can; Mike Norris tune 643rwhp 598 rwtq

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06-07-2011, 11:18 AM	#15
CC Performance Account Suspended Drives: 99 Camaro SS, 79 z28, 70 GTX Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: ST Helens, OR Posts: 1,759	Well if your talking boost then the LSx block should be limited to a 434... (unless you get the tall deck) or even a 427 for savings on piston costs... The sleeve length of the cylinder is only so long. When you increase stroke like you would to get the 454 you have to make compromises.. and its the piston that gets compromised and as such is not ideal for boost you can make 5-600 with the 427 or 434 before boost. Yes you will need new heads and a cam, the whole thing will need to be reconfigured properly to make the power you want to make. I would go iron if using FI, iron is more durable than aluminum.. if it were n/a I would stay aluminum for the weight savings cost is so dependent on head and valvetrain choice its hard to just grab a number out of the air but 13000- 14500 is about the avg cost of our 434 build to make 1000 hp... complete from heads to oil pan.. intake is not included

06-07-2011, 11:45 AM	#18
CC Performance Account Suspended Drives: 99 Camaro SS, 79 z28, 70 GTX Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: ST Helens, OR Posts: 1,759	I'll answer both you at the same time because it essentially the same info..LOL My 457 makes approx 750 at the crank on pump gas.. its a 247/263 cam on a 115 lsa It drives like normal until you hit the gas then its all hell breaking lose. In a 3300 lb car the engine will run mid to low 9's this is all on pump gas... The mannerisms are that of as small cammed regular engine... you know there is something there but its not a challenge to drive.. the cubic inches make up for all of it... we run bigger cams in a 408 to be honest and if i was looking for all out top end this car would have a bigger cam... but its all about the combination.. the cross section of the heads.. etc.. making big power without stuffing a blower on is really where the expert engine builders come into play... anyone and I mean anyone can make 1000 hp with a blower.. its not hard to do at all.. just give it enough fuel and boost .... I'm an all motor kind of guy but we build boosted engines all the time...LOL We offer the 457 with TFS 245 heads on top for $16550, or more if you go with better heads. I have All Pro heads on my engine with titanium valves... and there are heads one step better but we're talking about $4500 and $7000 upgrades to better heads from the $16550... My car is 4150 lbs with me in it and 1/3 tank of gas.. I can drift when ever I want there are no tricks to it either... You hit a certain rpm and the tires break free simple as that.. its more power than the street can hold.. I drive it in the rain without issue, to the grocery store or dropping the kids off at school.. at the same time it will walk/run away from just about anything on the road... there is always someone with more power.. you run into them eventually ...LOL I have 3.89 gears and of course a full suspension, 9" rear, Watts link... etc.. the car is built to make power and lay it down and get around the corners

06-07-2011, 04:30 PM	#21
CC Performance Account Suspended Drives: 99 Camaro SS, 79 z28, 70 GTX Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: ST Helens, OR Posts: 1,759	They are similar in cost.. If your going 454 in aluminum its about the same price, the 457 is a little more... For the power you want you build the most cubes you can afford. We're doing a 503 for someone that is one step better/bigger but its a tall deck. The LSX iron 454 is less money but again it comes down to what heads are on top but the aluminum 454 will be better power to weight ratio and more money

06-08-2011, 03:40 PM	#22
PfadtRacing Drives: 2010 Camaro, 2006 Z06 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 3,370	We actually have an LS7 in our shop car. We decided to use the LS9 dry sump, located the sump tank into the rear, designed a custom crank pulley which was manufactured by ATI to retain all of the LS3 accessories. Running a Katech LS9 clutch the car looks, performs and feels like a stock vehicle. We wanted a setup to get us reliably to 550ish hp and retain stock or nearly stock manners and this combination hits the mark. Here are some pictures from the engine bay, pardon the camera phone pics. Also notice the clearance between the valve cover and the strut tower brace. We have a set of custom engine mounts that drops the overall position of the engine down... lowering the entire weight of the motor drops the Center of Gravity pretty effectively. Keep in mind this ONLY WILL WORK FOR DRY SUMPED CARS. There is less header to ground clearance if you're running aggressive headers, but with proper suspension tuning and careful driving it's still possible to daily drive this combination! Would there be interest in us selling LS family engine mounts for the Camaro that actually drop the position of the engine on dry sumped motors?

10-25-2011, 02:20 PM	#24
PfadtRacing Drives: 2010 Camaro, 2006 Z06 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 3,370	It's definitely not cheap, and probably not a swap that's easilly done on your own. We had to design our own custom crank pulley to retain the use of all the stock LS3 accessories, along with a lot of other custom doodads that you don't think about until you get elbows deep into the project. As far as ultimate power output is concerned there are definitely easier ways to go. For what it's worth, the car put down 515 at the wheels here at 4500' elevation in Utah on the JDP Motorsports dyno.