[clg82]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

That's awesome! Did you get numbers on Cali 91-oct, or is it a Torco-only car?

I think the aforementioned CTS-V was on 91 at just under 680 on a dynojet.

With my M6 on 93, the 2650 with a 103 and a big gulp, I'd hope I could see around 690-700 before the octane (or the low side) becomes my ceiling.

I do my tuning on the street with a bunch of uphill 4th gear pulls, to be as "real-world conservative" as possible with fuel supply and timing. Then I'd throw it on the dyno just to see what it makes.

I have the MPVI2 tuner which the Magnuson came with, the tuner was able to store a 91 (cali gas shit tune) and the Torco. So I switch back and forth between the two. With the 91 tune I believe i was at around 690 on a dynojet. And my apologies, i just looked at the dyno sheet again and i was at around 722 to the wheels with the torco additive. These cars love high octane fuel. Radz on here has me thinking of going TooHighPSI but i want to try and stay as stealth (in case I get pulled over) as possible.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by clg82

I have the MPVI2 tuner which the Magnuson came with, the tuner was able to store a 91 (cali gas shit tune) and the Torco. So I switch back and forth between the two. With the 91 tune I believe i was at around 690 on a dynojet. And my apologies, i just looked at the dyno sheet again and i was at around 722 to the wheels with the torco additive. These cars love high octane fuel. Radz on here has me thinking of going TooHighPSI but i want to try and stay as stealth (in case I get pulled over) as possible.

Awesome! That makes me feel like this mod is definitely worth it for a first round. Get the big expense out of the way up front, AND put down 700-ish on 93 with no heat soak to speak of.

My next step would likely be THP PI and a flex sensor in early '24, then headers and GESI's in early '25. By then, I might have fried the stock cats anyway...

By early '24, maybe Steck will have come out with his badass in-tank low side, plus PI injector control through the e92.

[ShockingZ]

Originally Posted by clg82

I know this goes without saying, and i'm not tryin to start a "magnuson vs" discussion but the 2650R turns the ZL1 into a totally incredible animal, if you're on the fence, get it before the price increase

To a point. What nobody tells you about a maggie on a stockish car is that you will lose a ton of that tip in grunt the stock blower gives you. The maggie when spun at mild boost like (13-15psi), will hit like a centri blower. Basically like a procharger or vortech. Boost will start around 6-8psi and build until you get to your peak around 14-15 if you are running the 90mm pulley.

This will feel strange if you are used to the stock blower hitting super hard at WOT tip in. And it always bothered me. Doing it over, unless i was going for the full monty 900 or more, I'd just work the stock blower with the Xport and all the supporting mods, and save your cash. Once you get to that 800ish to the tire number, you are full time on DRs for the street just to be able to kinda push it. Stock or normal street tires are completely out. I couldnt lean on mine at all without TC coming on or it ripping the stock tires off. And that was at about 740. All in all, its a big expense for not a lot of gain unless you are taking the fuel system to the max to support the 900-1200hp depending on fuel.

I learned the hard lesson for you and in the end was just about ready to switch back to the stock blower. It hurts to see stock blower guys on a few simple mods with meth and E running the same or more power and much more tq. Sure more heat as well, but at the drag strip its not a huge deal. Again, unless you are going full idiot, skip the maggie. Get the port and pulley and headers/meth and E and get that 700+ for quite a bit less.

[KingLT1]

I have been saying that for a long time around here and agree. The stock blower works very well with today's port programs. No need for a 2650 unless you are shooting for a 1000+.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by ShockingZ

To a point. What nobody tells you about a maggie on a stockish car is that you will lose a ton of that tip in grunt the stock blower gives you. The maggie when spun at mild boost like (13-15psi), will hit like a centri blower. Basically like a procharger or vortech. Boost will start around 6-8psi and build until you get to your peak around 14-15 if you are running the 90mm pulley.

This will feel strange if you are used to the stock blower hitting super hard at WOT tip in. And it always bothered me. Doing it over, unless i was going for the full monty 900 or more, I'd just work the stock blower with the Xport and all the supporting mods, and save your cash. Once you get to that 800ish to the tire number, you are full time on DRs for the street just to be able to kinda push it. Stock or normal street tires are completely out. I couldnt lean on mine at all without TC coming on or it ripping the stock tires off. And that was at about 740. All in all, its a big expense for not a lot of gain unless you are taking the fuel system to the max to support the 900-1200hp depending on fuel.

I learned the hard lesson for you and in the end was just about ready to switch back to the stock blower. It hurts to see stock blower guys on a few simple mods with meth and E running the same or more power and much more tq. Sure more heat as well, but at the drag strip its not a huge deal. Again, unless you are going full idiot, skip the maggie. Get the port and pulley and headers/meth and E and get that 700+ for quite a bit less.

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I have been saying that for a long time around here and agree. The stock blower works very well with today's port programs. No need for a 2650 unless you are shooting for a 1000+.

Meh, everyone has their opinions, especially when it seems people want to throw thousands at the stock blower….I’m cool with that, i went with the magnuson because it’s pending CARB approval for California, and unfortunately for us that live here, it’s something that we have to deal with can’t go headers, meth, etc. I could throw thousands at the stock blower, drive it one pass at a track here in so-cal with 80-90-100 degree heat, have to park it to cool down and than go for another run. And then lose the car when its impounded and they see all the modifications but I had to go a different route. If I move somewhere else, the Magnuson will give me a solid platform to build off. As far as full “torque” at the jump with the smaller blower, sure that’s cool, but what I currently have is unusable on the street now, it’s fun as it is, and it’s fun at the track without the heat soak.

[RobZL1]

Good feedback!

In the long run, I'd like to be around 1000 on E. I'm not made of money, but I want to build at least one "gonzo" street car in my lifetime, and that level of power fits the bill for me. My last car was supposed to be "the one" until it got t-boned and totaled out. So now it's this one.

With it being stock, and coming from my 5th gen Z that put down about 700, I don't feel like my current car hits hard at all right now, honestly. The whole reason I want to mod this one is because it feels really lackluster to me in stock trim. I guess what everyone says is true- once you get used to a certain power level, it's hard to go back.

All of that said, I want to be able to support a higher power level and be repeatable and low stress on the long block. I want a ridiculous daily-driver street car that I can take to the strip and/or half-mile a few times a year. Other must-have is to just fill it up with pump or E and go. I don't want to screw with meth or ice tanks.

I guess you can build an x-port to 900 or more these days, but by the time you add all the HEX, trunk tank, possibly meth, etc., I feel like you'd be at roughly the same cost as a 2650 with all the same other engine mods (headers/103/CAI/cam/fueling/ported heads) once you sell the original blower.

Correct me if my math is wrong, but:

7,000 for Maggie minus 2,000 or so to sell the stock blower
=
5,000 net cost of Maggie to support 900+

2,100 for x-port plus pulley/hub (no rebuild)
1,500-1,800 for trunk tank and pump setup
1,000-1,300 for heat exchangers
=
4,600 - 5,200 cost of x-port and supporting stuff to support 900+

I may be looking at this incorrectly, but I see the x-port and cooling mods as roughly the same cost as buying a maggie and selling the stock blower.

Shoot holes in my math if it's wrong, please.

[clg82]

Here is a stock blower build in a current thread, that they think will net 825 HP, seems like a lot of work for what you get IMO.

-Kong Regular Port w/2.30 upper
-MPI Blower Lid
-FRE Stage 2 Heads Rebuilt by LME
-.028 Head Gaskets “10.6:1” Compression
-BTR Stage 1 Cam +38% Fuel Lobe
-DSX Flex Fuel Kit
-XDI +65 Injectors
-LPE Big Bore HPFP
-JMS Voltage Booster
-DSX Aux Low Side
-C.H.E Trunnion Kit
-ATI Balancer w/9.25 lower
-Katech 103mm TB
-Roto Fab Big Gulp
-LMP Heat Exchanger
-Katech 174 T-Stat
-TSP 2” Headers

[Schlok]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Good feedback!

In the long run, I'd like to be around 1000 on E. I'm not made of money, but I want to build at least one "gonzo" street car in my lifetime, and that level of power fits the bill for me. My last car was supposed to be "the one" until it got t-boned and totaled out. So now it's this one.

With it being stock, and coming from my 5th gen Z that put down about 700, I don't feel like my current car hits hard at all right now, honestly. The whole reason I want to mod this one is because it feels really lackluster to me in stock trim. I guess what everyone says is true- once you get used to a certain power level, it's hard to go back.

All of that said, I want to be able to support a higher power level and be repeatable and low stress on the long block. I want a ridiculous daily-driver street car that I can take to the strip and/or half-mile a few times a year. Other must-have is to just fill it up with pump or E and go. I don't want to screw with meth or ice tanks.

I guess you can build an x-port to 900 or more these days, but by the time you add all the HEX, trunk tank, possibly meth, etc., I feel like you'd be at roughly the same cost as a 2650 with all the same other engine mods (headers/103/CAI/cam/fueling/ported heads) once you sell the original blower.

Correct me if my math is wrong, but:

7,000 for Maggie minus 2,000 or so to sell the stock blower
=
5,000 net cost of Maggie to support 900+

2,100 for x-port plus pulley/hub (no rebuild)
1,500-1,800 for trunk tank and pump setup
1,000-1,300 for heat exchangers
=
4,600 - 5,200 cost of x-port and supporting stuff to support 900+

I may be looking at this incorrectly, but I see the x-port and cooling mods as roughly the same cost as buying a maggie and selling the stock blower.

Shoot holes in my math if it's wrong, please.

I think getting 2k for the stock blower is a bit generous...I sold mine for $1600 and took a little less money to have zero work to do, someone is picking it up from me vice having to ship it. My stock blower had maybe 200 miles on it? Only 650 on my car now and it has a 2650 on it. I thought I wanted to go "800+Whp" when I was getting stuff together and decided that was 'absurd' for a car I'm going to drive to work/grocery shopping about half the year (when I eventually get to drive it...). If I was going to do it ALL over again, yeah, porting the stock blower, a slight TB upgrade, probably some HXs and a CAI and LTs and call it a day. The LTs are not really even necessary, you can make some big power through the stock exhaust.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by clg82

Meh, everyone has their opinions, especially when it seems people want to throw thousands at the stock blower….I’m cool with that, i went with the magnuson because it’s pending CARB approval for California, and unfortunately for us that live here, it’s something that we have to deal with can’t go headers, meth, etc. I could throw thousands at the stock blower, drive it one pass at a track here in so-cal with 80-90-100 degree heat, have to park it to cool down and than go for another run. And then lose the car when its impounded and they see all the modifications but I had to go a different route. If I move somewhere else, the Magnuson will give me a solid platform to build off. As far as full “torque” at the jump with the smaller blower, sure that’s cool, but what I currently have is unusable on the street now, it’s fun as it is, and it’s fun at the track without the heat soak.

I have tuned and seen the data first hand from several different stock blower(ported and non-ported), Whipple, Mag 2300, 2650, and Centri setups. What you "think" has some merit when limited to pump gas. Switch to Ethanol and you can throw most of that argument out the window.

See Ethanol likes heat and the supercharger can produce much higher air temps without needing to pull timing. You don't need to spend a bunch of money on ice tanks what not. Ethanol likes heat. Combine that with the latest port programs and the stock blower does very well. It's been proven and plenty of data out there supports it.

Not trying to knock what you chose to do with your car. The 2650 is a beast you simply are not using anywhere close to it's potential. But I can see why you chose to go with it. For pump gas only the added cooling will be beneficial.

I am not biased in the slightest. I like all setups and there are definitely more ways then 1 to skin a cat.

Originally Posted by clg82

Here is a stock blower build in a current thread, that they think will net 825 HP, seems like a lot of work for what you get IMO.

-Kong Regular Port w/2.30 upper
-MPI Blower Lid
-FRE Stage 2 Heads Rebuilt by LME
-.028 Head Gaskets “10.6:1” Compression
-BTR Stage 1 Cam +38% Fuel Lobe
-DSX Flex Fuel Kit
-XDI +65 Injectors
-LPE Big Bore HPFP
-JMS Voltage Booster
-DSX Aux Low Side
-C.H.E Trunnion Kit
-ATI Balancer w/9.25 lower
-Katech 103mm TB
-Roto Fab Big Gulp
-LMP Heat Exchanger
-Katech 174 T-Stat
-TSP 2” Headers

Keep in mind you wouldn't make anymore power with a 2650 sitting on top at the same boost level. So I am not sure how you think this is lacking for what it is. First off it's a Mustang Dyno. This car made 660whp on old setup on this Dyno. The car trapped 135 in the 1/4. I seen someone else put a Maggie 2650 on their ZL1 with no other mods it made 700whp, but only trapped 130. So Dyno numbers don't mean squat without a baseline. If the car you cited makes 825whp then it's right on point from what it made prior and will likely be a 145-147mph car in the 1/4 in decent air. Seems pretty good to me.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I have tuned and seen the data first hand from several different stock blower(ported and non-ported), Whipple, Mag 2300, 2650, and Centri setups. What you "think" has some merit when limited to pump gas. Switch to Ethanol and you can throw most of that argument out the window.

See Ethanol likes heat and the supercharger can produce much higher air temps without needing to pull timing. You don't need to spend a bunch of money on ice tanks what not. Ethanol likes heat. Combine that with the latest port programs and the stock blower does very well. It's been proven and plenty of data out there supports it.

Not trying to knock what you chose to do with your car. The 2650 is a beast you simply are not using anywhere close to it's potential. But I can see why you chose to go with it. For pump gas only the added cooling will be beneficial.

I am not biased in the slightest. I like all setups and there are definitely more ways then 1 to skin a cat.



Keep in mind you wouldn't make anymore power with a 2650 sitting on top at the same boost level. So I am not sure how you think this is lacking for what it is. First off it's a Mustang Dyno. This car made 660whp on old setup on this Dyno. The car trapped 135 in the 1/4. I seen someone else put a Maggie 2650 on their ZL1 with no other mods it made 700whp, but only trapped 130. So Dyno numbers don't mean squat without a baseline. If the car you cited makes 825whp then it's right on point from what it made prior and will likely be a 145-147mph car in the 1/4 in decent air. Seems pretty good to me.

A genuine question here- would you have put an LT4 x-port on your car instead of the Whipple if you did it today?

[KingLT1]

No because I can't do a X port for I bought my Whipple for. I paid 5k for the entire kit brand new and ended up about 4500.00 all in after I sold the HPtuners I didn't need. If you are comparing to current prices, I would go with whatever I could buy cheaper. They all make good power.

Either way I am not saying the 2650 is the wrong choice. I am just saying a X port or Jokerz port stock blower does really good and is plenty for most setups. The ones I have tuned hold 130's MAT's in summer making 13-14psi on stock pulley with stock cooling. That is almost 2650 boost level with the base pulleys. And that boost level with a cam and E should make close to 800 pull after pull. Not to mention the race port tilts the boost curve, so it hits 8-9psi and builds to 14. The standard port needs 2 sizes smaller pulley, hits 11-12psi, builds to 14psi.

Not trying to offend. Looking back I probably should of worded what I said differently.

[RobZL1]

Not offended at all on my end! I value your experience. I've only tuned a handful of cars (though I spent a LOT of time learning on my personal cars through the different phases of mods), so hearing your experience-based perspective in invaluable.

I'm still going to go 2650, mainly because I "just want it." Dumb reason, I know. But, in my experience, I always wanted more from my cars, and never got there for whatever reason. I figure with the 2650, I've got the foundation to support a big build for when I get there in several years. In the meantime, if the only downsides are cash outlay and less "hit" in the lower RPM range, I'm good with that trade off.

That said, how far can you take the stock blower these days? will it see 1000, or will it just heat soak itself to death at that point?

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Not offended at all on my end! I value your experience. I've only tuned a handful of cars (though I spent a LOT of time learning on my personal cars through the different phases of mods), so hearing your experience-based perspective in invaluable.

I'm still going to go 2650, mainly because I "just want it." Dumb reason, I know. But, in my experience, I always wanted more from my cars, and never got there for whatever reason. I figure with the 2650, I've got the foundation to support a big build for when I get there in several years. In the meantime, if the only downsides are cash outlay and less "hit" in the lower RPM range, I'm good with that trade off.

That said, how far can you take the stock blower these days? will it see 1000, or will it just heat soak itself to death at that point?

With today's porting, I think 900whp is a safe stretch for the stock blower. Not saying you can't go a bit further but it may require much more serious cooling methods or meth.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

With today's porting, I think 900whp is a safe stretch for the stock blower. Not saying you can't go a bit further but it may require much more serious cooling methods or meth.

900HP on a stock blower without meth?!