The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[thebrander]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

theres already been people making that kinda power (and more ie 1400rwhp)with the stock 5.4 longblock with turbochargers. That doesnt even require lifting the valve covers!! Thats stock cams,block,crank,rods,stock pistons, everything but the intake manifold and exhaust. Hardly anything on the LS3 you showed is stock. Anyways i prefer to talk about something more realistic than these big dollar engines and stick to something a lil more simple like supercharger upgrades and things like that.

Yep, we're getting way off topic. Why not just put a rocket behind the Camaro, right?

So now I'm wondering which car (5.0 or SS) will be less expensive to get to say 650 BHP. That seems to be a reliable, drivable, and "competitive" number (compared to much more expensive cars that are still stock that someone would brag about beating if they got the chance to race).

EDIT: ... or maybe to stay within the realm of reliability we also consider HP upgrade packages for both cars that come with some sort of warranty.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by thebrander

Exactly. My point is both engines are limited only by money. My guess is that the cost for a 200HP bump to the 5.0 will be the same for the LS3 (about $7000 for an SC and tune).

Although, I'm still doing my homework, I expect to find that FI on Ford engines is no different than GM engines. You just see a lot more cammed GM engines because the higher displacement yields more "untapped NA HP".

If the OHC is better for FI, are there any theories why?

i really dont know EXACTLY why, im told the DOHC heads flow better BUT just looking at flow numbers that isnt exactly the case. I think theres more at work than just flow numbers.....its magic......jk but theres probably other characteristics (other than just hard numbers) that make the DOHC better for boost i think.
To say their no different is kinda wrong though, the power levels might be similar but the DOHC's do it with less displacement. Theyre already working on a supercharger for the 5.0 that should put down 520ish RWHP @ only 7psi. I believe a supercharger upgrade for the 6.2 netted someone on here RWHP in the high 400's

[Sax1031]

The only possible advantage the OHC motor would have is because they usually can turn higher rpm than pushrod motors.

[HIGHOCTANE]

I kind of liked my wittle 4.6 DOHC Ford motor..1st run is 10.5#, second run 15.5....anything higher and the shock would shut down my HDD video camera...sorry...21 psi...is plain RETAREDED lol

[HIGHOCTANE]

Here is another...measely 4.6..actually 284 CI....16.5 psi IIRC(~700 RWHP),...camera managed to record this runsince it was being held...again starting slow in 2nd gear..1st is useless on the street.
I'd LOVE to set my Camaro up the same way..maybe one day.......

[thebrander]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

The only possible advantage the OHC motor would have is because they usually can turn higher rpm than pushrod motors.

So that makes sense: you can turn the same size pulley faster and create more boost.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by thebrander

So that makes sense: you can turn the same size pulley faster and create more boost.

most roots/twin screw supeys dont rely on rpms at all and actually lose some boost at higher rpms.

[thebrander]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

i really dont know EXACTLY why, im told the DOHC heads flow better BUT just looking at flow numbers that isnt exactly the case. I think theres more at work than just flow numbers.....its magic......jk but theres probably other characteristics (other than just hard numbers) that make the DOHC better for boost i think.
To say their no different is kinda wrong though, the power levels might be similar but the DOHC's do it with less displacement. Theyre already working on a supercharger for the 5.0 that should put down 520ish RWHP @ only 7psi. I believe a supercharger upgrade for the 6.2 netted someone on here RWHP in the high 400's

You're right, all the warranty-backed LS3 packages seem to be in the high 400's, which I think suggests that's the "safe level" for the stock engine internals (and I think they're also running around 7psi).

This upcoming SC for the 5.0, will Ford offer it as a warranteed package?

[thebrander]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

most roots/twin screw supeys dont rely on rpms at all and actually lose some boost at higher rpms.

Well there goes that theory. I bet if we were talking cam/bolt-on/tune on this forum, we'd have plenty of experts chime in!!

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by HIGHOCTANE

Here is another...measely 4.6..actually 284 CI....16.5 psi IIRC(~700 RWHP),...camera managed to record this runsince it was being held...again starting slow in 2nd gear..1st is useless on the street.
I'd LOVE to set my Camaro up the same way..maybe one day.......

if flooring it on the street, do you just start from second gear? anyways I think the Supra 3.0 I6 brought insane power levels to the street and a few years later the 4.6 DOHC made insane power levels attainable to the common adult.

[CLEAN]

Originally Posted by NoDak Scotty

OK, I'll take torque over hp but that's just me. So the 5-oh makes great hp but not so much torque as the 6.2?
Don't intend to make this Ford vs Chevy, I am just curious how they get the same power with less cuib inches.

Well the real power of an engine is the torque. HP is basically a mathematical function of where in the powerband the power is made. The LS3 makes more torque than the 5.0, but even though the 5.0 is down 30-40 lb/ft, because it makes it's peak higher up in the band, the math works out to very similar HP's. So to answer your question, the LS3 makes more low end torque, but the 5.0 really comes on higher up. I'm like you though, I'll take low end torque over high end power, simply because I'm always is stop and go traffic.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by thebrander

You're right, all the warranty-backed LS3 packages seem to be in the high 400's, which I think suggests that's the "safe level" for the stock engine internals (and I think they're also running around 7psi).

This upcoming SC for the 5.0, will Ford offer it as a warranteed package?

i believe whipple is the one making it and they have their own warranty for the supercharger. Not sure about the engine but we'll see what kinda offerings Ford will have when it finally comes out.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by CLEAN

Well the real power of an engine is the torque. HP is basically a mathematical function of where in the powerband the power is made. The LS3 makes more torque than the 5.0, but even though the 5.0 is down 30-40 lb/ft, because it makes it's peak higher up in the band, the math works out to very similar HP's. So to answer your question, the LS3 makes more low end torque, but the 5.0 really comes on higher up. I'm like you though, I'll take low end torque over high end power, simply because I'm always is stop and go traffic.

Low end torque isnt much of an advantage if youre running street tires. Theres only so much of it that is needed at the lower rpms, especially in a lighter car. And if you have a manual tranny car, you can just launch it at the rpm you want. So if you want to launch it at peak torque you can, even if its in the higher rpms.

[thebrander]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

i believe whipple is the one making it and they have their own warranty for the supercharger. Not sure about the engine but we'll see what kinda offerings Ford will have when it finally comes out.

I don't remember which thread I've already stated this, but it's a nice service Ford provides with their warranteed power upgrades. What's a typical Ford drivetrain warranty?