What are your views on this, plz read

[dbotsfordtat]

Originally Posted by Steve

This guy is a total idiot. He does not have a grip on reality. He states that Americans should not have to compete against other countries, and should not have to settle for the lower wages and benefits. Wake up jerk - reality is you will have too! What - do you want to compete against people from Mars instead? On this next issue I have stayed silent and no longer can. I too share the opinion that the UAW is just as insane as this guy. At one time they were needed, but no longer. The free market and competition offer competitive pay. Government agencies manage safety and how pensions are managed. All the UAW does now is push the car manufacturers into agreements that cause the high cost per employee we are now seeing, which ultimately bring them down. We have seen that it is not the per hour cost that is the problem but the added cost for all the unrealistic programs, like having to pay employees to set in a room when their service is no longer needed. And another thing - let them hold out and not become part of the solution by conceding benefits costs, and instead continue to be the source of the problem until GM files chapter 11. Nothing wakes you up to the reality of not having a job like loosing a job! Especially when you could have done something to keep you in that job.

My scream is complete for now - thank you.

I'm sorry your being a little vague, most of our manufacturing has gone to China, do you really want to work for the wages chinese workers make? Thats an average $0 .22 per hour (twenty two cents per hour or $ 16.13 for a 70 hour work week). In order to compete with this, we all have to agree to work for twenty one cents an hour, no thanks. Also, when management screws up in China they don't get golden parachutes or bonuses, the Chinese government puts them to death. I could agree to that.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

.......And do something to get consumers spending, because consumers spending = corporate revenue = a stop to the hemorrhaging of job loss. If someone is worried about losing their job, they won't be buying a new car.
.

During the oil price spike many products doubled and even tripled in price...T-post, yr 2000- $1.25 ea. today, over $5 bucks. Barbed wire, yr 2000- $24 bucks. Today hovering over $60.

The above is only a small sample of how companies are cutting their own throats by being greedy. My old fence is fine for now thankyouverymuch.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

But why does UAW exist at all, can't they make the cars in america only, or is that to costly

^ To gator ...Seriously If they really care about the survival and success of GM/Chrysler, they would of took the cut no questions asked.... I read over half of them making $70 dollars an hour with only H.S. diplomas living in $400,000 homes, they make me sick ....

You make me sick.






Go ahead and read DGthe3's reply because i don't have the patience to reply to this.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

You make me sick.






Go ahead and read DGthe3's reply because i don't have the patience to reply to this.

ok ok ok ... so I was wrong you don't have to be mean, but the UAW still needs a pay cut, the extortion has to stop

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

ok ok ok ... so I was wrong you don't have to be mean, but the UAW still needs a pay cut, the extortion has to stop

Sorry that was over the top.


i agree somebody has to start taking pay cuts... the executives who make more money than they could ever spend are my vote.



AND I'm a Republican. So thats saying something.

[kdbolt70]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

Sorry that was over the top.


i agree somebody has to start taking pay cuts... the executives who make more money than they could ever spend are my vote.



AND I'm a Republican. So thats saying something.

Wag's working for a dollar a year. The exec's took a 40% pay cut recently. What really needs to happen is a swift handling of the legacy healthcare provided for the retirees. Thats whats bringing them down. I'd be interested to see the current salaried workforce total salary cost, vs the cost of retirees. I have a feeling the retired cost actually outweighs the current workforce cost.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by kdbolt70

Wag's working for a dollar a year. The exec's took a 40% pay cut recently. What really needs to happen is a swift handling of the legacy healthcare provided for the retirees. Thats whats bringing them down. I'd be interested to see the current salaried workforce total salary cost, vs the cost of retirees. I have a feeling the retired cost actually outweighs the current workforce cost.

one man taking a sallary cut isnt enough... even though im sure it would be the same as 1000 blue collar jobs

[kdbolt70]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

one man taking a sallary cut isnt enough... even though im sure it would be the same as 1000 blue collar jobs

your right. So far every single GM salaried employee has taken a 3-7% cut since the beginning of the year. They've also taken about a 10% cut since benefits were at its peak, so you're looking at about an average of 15% cut since about 2006. Sure, they could take more, but I don't think that's where the real problem is. Nevertheless, I'm sure the gov't will force GM to cut salaries another 10-20%.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by kdbolt70

your right. So far every single GM salaried employee has taken a 3-7% cut since the beginning of the year. They've also taken about a 10% cut since benefits were at its peak, so you're looking at about an average of 15% cut since about 2006. Sure, they could take more, but I don't think that's where the real problem is. Nevertheless, I'm sure the gov't will force GM to cut salaries another 10-20%.

First off, proof? and assuming you can back that up, thats a step in the right direction. a step.


Second, is this just GM or is this a Big 3 thing?

[kdbolt70]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

First off, proof? and assuming you can back that up, thats a step in the right direction. a step.


Second, is this just GM or is this a Big 3 thing?

GM thing as far as I know. I don't know if Chrysler releases their salaries.

I apologize, the 40% is actually 10%, I heard the numbers incorrectly. Nevertheless, here's an article:

About 3,400 of GM’s 29,500 U.S. salaried workers will be dismissed by May 1, the Detroit-based automaker said in a statement. U.S. salaries will be cut temporarily by 10 percent for executives and by 3 percent to 7 percent for most others. GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, who already sliced his annual salary to $1, is reviewing salaries and benefits abroad.

“This is a dramatic step -- it shows they are turning a corner” in their restructuring plan, said Gary Chaison, a labor relations professor at Clark University in Worcester, Massachusetts. “It gives GM tremendous leverage in talking to bondholders and the unions about their own cuts.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a584sX_99TF8

In terms of the additional salary/benefit cuts, I could try to look through and find an article on it, but I know personally from my father discussing it with me. His heathcare coverage has changed, his fees for things like company cars have increased (they are not free for employees), and the 401k matching has dried up.


Edit: looking into it further, I found this:

10% for unclassified (executives); 7% for Levels 8 and 9 (managers, technical fellows, other senior folks); 3% for Level 7 and below. Levels 8 and 9 and unclassified enjoy the use of company vehicles.

So "executives" isn't exactly the most descriptive. There are many unclassifieds at GM, not just a few elite VP's or something. This is quite a widespread cut.

[UA488Fitter]

When is saw the "Made in Mexico" lable on the engine wiring harness of the
Camaro the first thought that came to mind is.
I wonder if the workers assembling these harnesses enjoy the same standard
of live as we do?
I wonder if any of these worker can even afford to purchase these cars?

After the race to the bottom that Mayor Bernero talks about is all over and
we are all recieving the same wages as Mexico or China. Or, after all of our
jobs have been out-sourced to countries like these.
Who will be left that call afford to purchase any of the goods?

[dbotsfordtat]

Originally Posted by UA488Fitter

When is saw the "Made in Mexico" lable on the engine wiring harness of the
Camaro the first thought that came to mind is.
I wonder if the workers assembling these harnesses enjoy the same standard
of live as we do?
I wonder if any of these worker can even afford to purchase these cars?

After the race to the bottom that Mayor Bernero talks about is all over and
we are all recieving the same wages as Mexico or China. Or, after all of our
jobs have been out-sourced to countries like these.
Who will be left that call afford to purchase any of the goods?

Thank You! +100

[Mr. Wyndham]

*nothing said below is in any way directed at anyone.


The UAW does nothing that inherently makes them 'bad'....At least not anymore. The cold hard fact is that United States/Canada labor will cost more than anywhere else. Our standard of living is just far and above China/Mexico, etc. The UAW has nothing to do with that. To compound that...if you're CEO, and your first priority to cut costs is to slash UAW wages...you're an idiot:

Labor accounts for less than 10% of a vehicle's cost. So even if you cut their wages 50%...you're going to save a massive 5% per vehicle? Care to calculate the pros v. cons of having an unhappy, dirt-paid workforce(quality anyone?) just to save ~750 bucks a vehicle? There are a host of other things that should be above that on your to-do list. Things like healthcare issues, retiree issues, dealership issues, corporate management and cost structure, materials used, quality gaps....

At this point, the Union is nothing more than a scape-goat to make comments like the one above...I mean Cutting their wages? It's been done. They will get paid no more than any import brand worker here in the US. Cut them anymore and your getting into that slave labor thing mentioned....fun, huh?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

*nothing said below is in any way directed at anyone.


The UAW does nothing that inherently makes them 'bad'....At least not anymore. The cold hard fact is that United States/Canada labor will cost more than anywhere else. Our standard of living is just far and above China/Mexico, etc. The UAW has nothing to do with that. To compound that...if you're CEO, and your first priority to cut costs is to slash UAW wages...you're an idiot:

Labor accounts for less than 10% of a vehicle's cost. So even if you cut their wages 50%...you're going to save a massive 5% per vehicle? Care to calculate the pros v. cons of having an unhappy, dirt-paid workforce(quality anyone?) just to save ~750 bucks a vehicle? There are a host of other things that should be above that on your to-do list. Things like healthcare issues, retiree issues, dealership issues, corporate management and cost structure, materials used, quality gaps....

At this point, the Union is nothing more than a scape-goat to make comments like the one above...I mean Cutting their wages? It's been done. They will get paid no more than any import brand worker here in the US. Cut them anymore and your getting into that slave labor thing mentioned....fun, huh?

I beg to differ on that point. I think the UAW (and CAW) has done a lot to raise our standard of living to that level.