Shno's House of Z

[brt3]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Before the sink hole occurring at the NCM...2001 Z06 Mallet Hammer

Wow. Astonishing. And very sad...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

#3 is too practical. Put the LS9 in :-)

Hey! I never said don't.

It would be an awesome "farewell" for the Gen5 IMO. It would just rival the cost of the Z/28 and likely be pretty low volume.

Just not sure what engines left over or that can still be built from the old Wixom plant.

It they did, it would need to be more than just an engine though. And for that I think you would be looking at another $75,000 Camaro. And boy would that make an interesting thread.

How about and ZL1 with an LS9 and CC brakes? Nowwwwww how would you spend your $75,000? This car would have a 120 HP on the Z/28, more than enough to overcome the 200 plus pound weight disadvantage. MR shocks, talk about a much better DD too with NAV and all the creature comforts.

Ok talked me into it.......................oh wait, still need the $75,000.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Hey! I never said don't.

It would be an awesome "farewell" for the Gen5 IMO. It would just rival the cost of the Z/28 and likely be pretty low volume.

Just not sure what engines left over or that can still be built from the old Wixom plant.

It they did, it would need to be more than just an engine though. And for that I think you would be looking at another $75,000 Camaro. And boy would that make an interesting thread.

How about and ZL1 with an LS9 and CC brakes? Nowwwwww how would you spend your $75,000? This car would have a 120 HP on the Z/28, more than enough to overcome the 200 plus pound weight disadvantage. MR shocks, talk about a much better DD too with NAV and all the creature comforts.

Ok talked me into it.......................oh wait, still need the $75,000.

...and call it the BERLINETTA?! How 'bout HOWITZER...



I think the $75K zone would be bypassed...FAST!

[Bhobbs]

Is there any real world benefit to the hand building process for the dry sump LS3, LS7 and LS9?

[Blueclyde]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Is there any real world benefit to the hand building process for the dry sump LS3, LS7 and LS9?

I think it was more of a financial benefit. It was way less expensive for GM to tool and operate the line at the performance build center than it would be to tool a high volume line. The hand build made sense for these low volume engine models.

[Scarrzz]

.

Low volume special edition is OK too,

as long as it utterly stomps the blue oval in every category beyond any reasonable debate.

[Janet]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Janet, and NCM, shared this on FB...and I don't think it'll buff out.

Mallett's last stand...

I shed a tear(s) for each of those cars when they emerged. The Mallet was by far the worst off and saddest. The Blue Devil was the BEST when it started right up & drove off with only a little leak. Now the repairs to the Museum will begin. In 2 weeks I'll be at the Museum and take a look at all 8 cars up close and probably shed a few more tears. All of the cars are important in their own way. It is the History.

Janet

[Number 3]

Ok, probably should post this is some Gen6 thread, but much more comfortable posting in the confines of The House.

What I want in the NG Camaro, by Number 3.

First and foremost I need it to add up to a great coupe. Doesn't have to be an ATS Coupe but my fear is GM will pull, well, a GM. They will dumb down the Camaro because there is a Cadillac ATS and ATS V-sport or V. They did it with the Impala because there is a Buick and Cadillac to compete with. They %^&*ed up the Malibu because there is a Regal to contend with and the Cruze would be amazing with a 2.0T, but that is reserved for the Buick Verano.

So #1 - Don't be the historical GM when it comes to the Camaro

Next typical GM will be to be afraid. They will be afraid that if they leave this "retro" Camaro look they will fail. So by doing this, they will fail. The Camaro is an opportunity for GM to show how great they can be, unbounded by history and retro and looking to the future of what a Pony car COULD be.

So #2 - Give me something great, something new, something even Audi and BMW wouldn't do. Make it American, make it clearly Camaro BUT DON'T give me a retread and hodge podge of your past. Give me a new direction.

Powertrains are pretty simple here based on what we know today. 2.0T, 3.6L and the LT1 6.2L. Mate all of them with an 8 speed auto and 7 speed manual. Powertrain will make this car. Give me the best you have today and that is sufficient. I don't need a DCT, although that would be an awesome upgrade. Just give me the best of what you have already announced and that will suffice.

#3 - Give me the best powertrain combination you have. Don't hold back because of Corvette or Cadillac.

Going back to a great coupe, DO NOT give me a car compromised for styling. Re read all the threads hear on Camaro5 from the beginning. DON'T have a high belt and low roof restricting visibility. DON'T have a tiny decklid restricting trunk access. DON'T make the car bigger than it needs to be simply for bold styling.

#4 - Function over form. Sorry designers, but I know you can make a great looking car after it works. I look at the ATS and see how many compromises you made in the package compared to a BMW 3 Series. You really #$%^&ed it up. I saw the seating bucks and how you raised the belt line, lowered the roof and did another one of those typical GM, "smaller on the inside, but bigger on the outside" specials. Yes the ATS made it on weight, but you lost it in compromising styling over functionality. Try out that back seat.............in a SEDAN. Sucks.

Refinement please. Give me at a minimum an Opel quality interior. You screwed up the Camaro interior 10 ways to Sunday and ended up adding NAV and adding an insert simply to spruce it up. Opel is not Audi or MB or BMW, but if you can put it in a $30,000 Regal you can put it in a Camaro. Another typical GMism. Put an interior in the car appropriate for the base price. That way when you buy a $40,000 SS or a $55,000 ZL1 you can feel like your car was skimped on. GM you know how to do this so do it.

#5 - Give me a quality interior. Doesn't need to be a Cadillac, but it does need to be great. Good is not good enough.

Don't hold back on features and technology. It doesn't need to be a Cadillac, but for crying out loud we waited until 2012 for a freaking height adjustable passenger seat. Really?????? We didn't get NAV at launch. HUD came late. Still don't have lane departure warning or other features found on simple mid size cars.

#6 - Don't skimp on the available options. Doesn't need to be base, but I need to be able to get most of what I need without having to buy a Cadillac.

Weight. OMG that's the biggest (excuse the pun) thing we talk about. An Alpha based Camaro, to everyone's dismay, will NOT weight 3300 pounds with a V8. The Cadillac already offers premium materials to get a 3,400 pound 4 cylinder. And as I've said, don't give me a Cadillac, give me a Chevy. I'm guessing the best we would see would be a 3,650 pound V8 powered SS. Maybe closer to 3,700. ANNNNNND THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.

#7 - Work on the packaging and the weight. Don't give me a PIG but I don't need a featherweight either.

So it's that simple.

Opel quality interior
Best Engine and Transmissions you have in your arsenal
Good visibility
Good features
New direction for styling
Good weight

Balanced performance doesn't mean the best you can buy but it should be the best Chevy can do. And we've seen glimpses in the Impala, the SS and the C7. You can do this Chevy. I am wanting an Audi RS5 in the worst way. I don't want to spend $70,000 for one. You can give me a car as outlined above and I would gladly pay you $50,000 for an SS with an 8 speed auto, an LT1, with great accommodations and features.

Please make me happy........I'm waiting.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok, probably should post this is some Gen6 thread, but much more comfortable posting in the confines of The House.

What I want in the NG Camaro, by Number 3.

First and foremost I need it to add up to a great coupe. Doesn't have to be an ATS Coupe but my fear is GM will pull, well, a GM. They will dumb down the Camaro because there is a Cadillac ATS and ATS V-sport or V. They did it with the Impala because there is a Buick and Cadillac to compete with. They %^&*ed up the Malibu because there is a Regal to contend with and the Cruze would be amazing with a 2.0T, but that is reserved for the Buick Verano.

So #1 - Don't be the historical GM when it comes to the Camaro
Not really too worried due to the Z/28 being the no compromises performer that it is.

Next typical GM will be to be afraid. They will be afraid that if they leave this "retro" Camaro look they will fail. So by doing this, they will fail. The Camaro is an opportunity for GM to show how great they can be, unbounded by history and retro and looking to the future of what a Pony car COULD be.
This is my biggest concern but the Stingray refills my faith tank in this department. I would like a more revolutionary approach too but we've heard otherwise. Also, I hated the 2014 refresh for 2 days and then ended up buying one.
So #2 - Give me something great, something new, something even Audi and BMW wouldn't do. Make it American, make it clearly Camaro BUT DON'T give me a retread and hodge podge of your past. Give me a new direction.

Powertrains are pretty simple here based on what we know today. 2.0T, 3.6L and the LT1 6.2L. Mate all of them with an 8 speed auto and 7 speed manual. Powertrain will make this car. Give me the best you have today and that is sufficient. I don't need a DCT, although that would be an awesome upgrade. Just give me the best of what you have already announced and that will suffice.
Agree and this seems the most logical powertrain lineup. I do have a sense that they're working on a lower horsepower more efficient V8 in comparison to the LT1 slated for the SS (or whatever they decide to call the entry level V8 performer). I would be OK with that if a significant amount of affordability came with it.

#3 - Give me the best powertrain combination you have. Don't hold back because of Corvette or Cadillac.

Going back to a great coupe, DO NOT give me a car compromised for styling. Re read all the threads hear on Camaro5 from the beginning. DON'T have a high belt and low roof restricting visibility. DON'T have a tiny decklid restricting trunk access. DON'T make the car bigger than it needs to be simply for bold styling.

#4 - Function over form. Sorry designers, but I know you can make a great looking car after it works. I look at the ATS and see how many compromises you made in the package compared to a BMW 3 Series. You really #$%^&ed it up. I saw the seating bucks and how you raised the belt line, lowered the roof and did another one of those typical GM, "smaller on the inside, but bigger on the outside" specials. Yes the ATS made it on weight, but you lost it in compromising styling over functionality. Try out that back seat.............in a SEDAN. Sucks.

Refinement please. Give me at a minimum an Opel quality interior. You screwed up the Camaro interior 10 ways to Sunday and ended up adding NAV and adding an insert simply to spruce it up. Opel is not Audi or MB or BMW, but if you can put it in a $30,000 Regal you can put it in a Camaro. Another typical GMism. Put an interior in the car appropriate for the base price. That way when you buy a $40,000 SS or a $55,000 ZL1 you can feel like your car was skimped on. GM you know how to do this so do it.

#5 - Give me a quality interior. Doesn't need to be a Cadillac, but it does need to be great. Good is not good enough.
I don't think we'll agree much on this one but after over 7 months with my 1LE I am completely happy with the interior (minus the sound system). I don't care if automotive journalists perceive the interior as above par or not. I just want a dash that won't crack after 15 years and for the buttons and other pieces to remain functional. I don't think the fifth gen interior has had enough time to fail or succeed yet but my 2002 Camaro's interior is downright abysmal. My steering wheel has rotted away on the top to where the wire is showing. My sideview mirror fell off going down the road from the inside out and other complaints too numerous to list.

Don't hold back on features and technology. It doesn't need to be a Cadillac, but for crying out loud we waited until 2012 for a freaking height adjustable passenger seat. Really?????? We didn't get NAV at launch. HUD came late. Still don't have lane departure warning or other features found on simple mid size cars.
I don't think I could live without HUD after using it. I enjoy the creature comforts of my 2SS but would go for a base model daily driver if I end up adding a sixth gen.

#6 - Don't skimp on the available options. Doesn't need to be base, but I need to be able to get most of what I need without having to buy a Cadillac.
I would add that the enormous progress that has been made in this area needs to be carried over to the sixth gen. My Recaros are heavenly. That should apply to performance options as well. No need to start over. Use that engineering genius to come up with a new way to improve performance as the generation advances. A second year 1LE would make sense but no NPP exhaust for 3 or 4 years would be inexcusable.

Weight. OMG that's the biggest (excuse the pun) thing we talk about. An Alpha based Camaro, to everyone's dismay, will NOT weight 3300 pounds with a V8. The Cadillac already offers premium materials to get a 3,400 pound 4 cylinder. And as I've said, don't give me a Cadillac, give me a Chevy. I'm guessing the best we would see would be a 3,650 pound V8 powered SS. Maybe closer to 3,700. ANNNNNND THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.

#7 - Work on the packaging and the weight. Don't give me a PIG but I don't need a featherweight either.

So it's that simple.

Opel quality interior
Best Engine and Transmissions you have in your arsenal
Good visibility
Good features
New direction for styling
Good weight

Balanced performance doesn't mean the best you can buy but it should be the best Chevy can do. And we've seen glimpses in the Impala, the SS and the C7. You can do this Chevy. I am wanting an Audi RS5 in the worst way. I don't want to spend $70,000 for one. You can give me a car as outlined above and I would gladly pay you $50,000 for an SS with an 8 speed auto, an LT1, with great accommodations and features.

Please make me happy........I'm waiting.

Also I want to add that confusion needs to be avoided in what they will call the available models. They've talked about "hallowed" nameplates more than once so don't make an SS a Z/28 or vice versa. Also, Hugger Orange and a nice blue are a no brainer. A removable roof would be nice too.

[tramtwo]

all I want is for my mirrors to auto adjust when I put the puppy in reverse

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So it's that simple.

Opel quality interior
Best Engine and Transmissions you have in your arsenal
Good visibility
Good features
New direction for styling
Good weight

Balanced performance doesn't mean the best you can buy but it should be the best Chevy can do. And we've seen glimpses in the Impala, the SS and the C7. You can do this Chevy. I am wanting an Audi RS5 in the worst way. I don't want to spend $70,000 for one. You can give me a car as outlined above and I would gladly pay you $50,000 for an SS with an 8 speed auto, an LT1, with great accommodations and features.

Please make me happy........I'm waiting.

With all the issues and competition in the marketplace, today AND moving forward, Camaro needs a "fresh" look that walks the tightrope between "alienation of existing clients" AND "attracting intenders from other showrooms". And looks alone won't do it. Interiors alone won't do it.

ALL 6, above, are MANDATORY. And I, too, have a check ready...

As Debbi Fields (of Mrs. Fields Cookies) famously once said, "Good enough NEVER is..."

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Also I want to add that confusion needs to be avoided in what they will call the available models. They've talked about "hallowed" nameplates more than once so don't make an SS a Z/28 or vice versa. Also, Hugger Orange and a nice blue are a no brainer. A removable roof would be nice too.

You may be happy with the interior. All I'm suggesting is that it not be a negative. I'm pretty sure if they gave us nicer materials and ergo you too would be happy.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok, probably should post this is some Gen6 thread, but much more comfortable posting in the confines of The House.

What I want in the NG Camaro, by Number 3.

First and foremost I need it to add up to a great coupe. Doesn't have to be an ATS Coupe but my fear is GM will pull, well, a GM. They will dumb down the Camaro because there is a Cadillac ATS and ATS V-sport or V. They did it with the Impala because there is a Buick and Cadillac to compete with. They %^&*ed up the Malibu because there is a Regal to contend with and the Cruze would be amazing with a 2.0T, but that is reserved for the Buick Verano.

So #1 - Don't be the historical GM when it comes to the Camaro

Next typical GM will be to be afraid. They will be afraid that if they leave this "retro" Camaro look they will fail. So by doing this, they will fail. The Camaro is an opportunity for GM to show how great they can be, unbounded by history and retro and looking to the future of what a Pony car COULD be.

So #2 - Give me something great, something new, something even Audi and BMW wouldn't do. Make it American, make it clearly Camaro BUT DON'T give me a retread and hodge podge of your past. Give me a new direction.

Powertrains are pretty simple here based on what we know today. 2.0T, 3.6L and the LT1 6.2L. Mate all of them with an 8 speed auto and 7 speed manual. Powertrain will make this car. Give me the best you have today and that is sufficient. I don't need a DCT, although that would be an awesome upgrade. Just give me the best of what you have already announced and that will suffice.

#3 - Give me the best powertrain combination you have. Don't hold back because of Corvette or Cadillac.

Going back to a great coupe, DO NOT give me a car compromised for styling. Re read all the threads hear on Camaro5 from the beginning. DON'T have a high belt and low roof restricting visibility. DON'T have a tiny decklid restricting trunk access. DON'T make the car bigger than it needs to be simply for bold styling.

#4 - Function over form. Sorry designers, but I know you can make a great looking car after it works. I look at the ATS and see how many compromises you made in the package compared to a BMW 3 Series. You really #$%^&ed it up. I saw the seating bucks and how you raised the belt line, lowered the roof and did another one of those typical GM, "smaller on the inside, but bigger on the outside" specials. Yes the ATS made it on weight, but you lost it in compromising styling over functionality. Try out that back seat.............in a SEDAN. Sucks.

Refinement please. Give me at a minimum an Opel quality interior. You screwed up the Camaro interior 10 ways to Sunday and ended up adding NAV and adding an insert simply to spruce it up. Opel is not Audi or MB or BMW, but if you can put it in a $30,000 Regal you can put it in a Camaro. Another typical GMism. Put an interior in the car appropriate for the base price. That way when you buy a $40,000 SS or a $55,000 ZL1 you can feel like your car was skimped on. GM you know how to do this so do it.

#5 - Give me a quality interior. Doesn't need to be a Cadillac, but it does need to be great. Good is not good enough.

Don't hold back on features and technology. It doesn't need to be a Cadillac, but for crying out loud we waited until 2012 for a freaking height adjustable passenger seat. Really?????? We didn't get NAV at launch. HUD came late. Still don't have lane departure warning or other features found on simple mid size cars.

#6 - Don't skimp on the available options. Doesn't need to be base, but I need to be able to get most of what I need without having to buy a Cadillac.

Weight. OMG that's the biggest (excuse the pun) thing we talk about. An Alpha based Camaro, to everyone's dismay, will NOT weight 3300 pounds with a V8. The Cadillac already offers premium materials to get a 3,400 pound 4 cylinder. And as I've said, don't give me a Cadillac, give me a Chevy. I'm guessing the best we would see would be a 3,650 pound V8 powered SS. Maybe closer to 3,700. ANNNNNND THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.

#7 - Work on the packaging and the weight. Don't give me a PIG but I don't need a featherweight either.

So it's that simple.

Opel quality interior
Best Engine and Transmissions you have in your arsenal
Good visibility
Good features
New direction for styling
Good weight

Balanced performance doesn't mean the best you can buy but it should be the best Chevy can do. And we've seen glimpses in the Impala, the SS and the C7. You can do this Chevy. I am wanting an Audi RS5 in the worst way. I don't want to spend $70,000 for one. You can give me a car as outlined above and I would gladly pay you $50,000 for an SS with an 8 speed auto, an LT1, with great accommodations and features.

Please make me happy........I'm waiting.

That all sounds nice until the average person sees the sticker shock. You might be asking a little too much for the Camaro. There is no free lunch. You can't get the performance and the quality without the price.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You may be happy with the interior. All I'm suggesting is that it not be a negative. I'm pretty sure if they gave us nicer materials and ergo you too would be happy.

You're right and I realize I'm in the minority in that opinion. Nicer materials would be great if it didn't hurt the price too much.