[BlaqWhole]

At this point I think Ford is going overboard with this delay on getting details out on the GT500. There is literally no reason now for them to be holding back any info. I think it is immature and silly. They waited extra long with the 18 GT and the PP2. And here they are doing the same thing when there is no reason. The RE numbers have been out. And nobody has anything waiting to surprise them if they put the info out. I mean, what, is GM gonna announce a 736HP Z28 right after Ford announces that the GT500 will have 735HP? This is the stupidest thing I have seen them do especially in this day and age. They probably even lost a handful of customers who got tired of waiting and decided to just buy a ZL1, Hellcat, Z06, or Redeye.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

At this point I think Ford is going overboard with this delay on getting details out on the GT500. There is literally no reason now for them to be holding back any info. I think it is immature and silly. They waited extra long with the 18 GT and the PP2. And here they are doing the same thing when there is no reason. The RE numbers have been out. And nobody has anything waiting to surprise them if they put the info out. I mean, what, is GM gonna announce a 736HP Z28 right after Ford announces that the GT500 will have 735HP? This is the stupidest thing I have seen them do especially in this day and age. They probably even lost a handful of customers who got tired of waiting and decided to just buy a ZL1, Hellcat, Z06, or Redeye.

Sounds to me like the GT500 isnt performing as well as they expected and they want to delay the disappointment as long as possible. Like you already said no other reason that I can think of why they haven't said anything else.

[Martinjlm]

Press Days for NYIAS are coming up, so it would have made sense for them to announce it there. But, Ford doesn’t have a press conference scheduled. Lincoln does (Corsair), but Ford does not, so one more opportunity passed.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I agree with you and Blaq in regards to FCA’s condition. That’s why I choose not to give them an F. They are making lemonade out of lemons. They are definitely living in the now. Mortgaging their CAFE future for the option pricing today. I also don’t give them an F because they are maintaining sales volume in a vehicle segment that is reducing in size. So, yes they are only maintaining volume, not really growing it, but they are getting the same size slice out of a pie that is getting smaller. Meaning somebody (Camaro, unfortunately) is getting an even smaller slice than they are used to.

Living in the now will likely catch up with FCA, unless it successfully partners with someone else or its valued pieces (Jeep, Ram) get sold off or acquired. But then, I’ve been saying that for pretty much five years now and it hasn’t happened yet.

Yep. Totally living in the now and like you said, unless they partner up with someone they are gong to crash and burn as a company in the near future I believe.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And that is fine...but the price is way too high. The HC was already high at $70K MSRP. The RE is dramatically more expensive. The Trackhawk is cool but it is well over $90K. And it's competition is the X5M which keeps up with it, has more features, and is luxury. I assume the Durango with HC power will likewise be high $90K...probably even more seeing as how the Durango is typically more expensive than the Grand Cherokee. Their hope seems to be that it'll drive people to them like the HC did when people started buying the SRT8s and R/Ts. And it might work for the Durango for the 2 years it'll take them to get their shit together. But that is only a 2 year plan and we know what they have in store. For the CHally, there isn't even any mention of anything in store. So it would have to be more than 2 years before any changes are made. That puts us at 2021 and 11+ years on the same platform. Will we see something in 2022? Who knows? What if, like alluded to earlier, emissions standards get very strict and the HC engine variants are no longer an option? That would spell disaster for them. To me they are taking a huge gamble and are dangling their feet off the ledge of oblivion. It might pay off or it might buy them time but it doesn't look good from where I stand.

I agree with you the prices are insane, but the amount of SRT Durango and SRT Jeeps I see on the road people are willing plunk down the money (and finance for 84+ months). But I totally agree. The long term outlook for Fiat looks awful. They are gambling with the future outlook to make today look good.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Or here's a thought. Perhaps FCA has no intentions of changing anything. Perhaps they're stuck and figure they'll just milk this for what it's worth until sales dip to where it is no longer worth production or emissions standards forces them to shut it down.

That has been my old mans thought for a while. They are just going to wring it out to the very end. Milk the Chargallenger for everything it has then if they have to just shutter Dodge and Chrysler and just move forward with Jeep and Ram.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

At this point I think Ford is going overboard with this delay on getting details out on the GT500. There is literally no reason now for them to be holding back any info. I think it is immature and silly. They waited extra long with the 18 GT and the PP2. And here they are doing the same thing when there is no reason. The RE numbers have been out. And nobody has anything waiting to surprise them if they put the info out. I mean, what, is GM gonna announce a 736HP Z28 right after Ford announces that the GT500 will have 735HP? This is the stupidest thing I have seen them do especially in this day and age. They probably even lost a handful of customers who got tired of waiting and decided to just buy a ZL1, Hellcat, Z06, or Redeye.

There was a video that came out maybe a week or two ago from a Mustang event where one of the head guys from Ford Performance was talking about the GT500. He said they are going to wait until the very last possible minute to release the final hp numbers. I believe he said until they have to submit it to the EPA they are going to keep tinkering. His reasoning was that he didn't want to do what they did with the GT500 in 07 when they released it. Before it was released they said 450HP, then a few weeks later they said its going to be 475 and then right before release they got it up 500. He said he didn't want to go through that again so they are going to wait till the last possible moment. Take that for what it's worth, just relaying the message

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That has been my old mans thought for a while. They are just going to wring it out to the very end. Milk the Chargallenger for everything it has then if they have to just shutter Dodge and Chrysler and just move forward with Jeep and Ram.

That is how it looks to me also. Separating Ram from Dodge. News reports that Jeep alone is worth more than the whole business...

Also, when Marchionne did the five year plan last year. Dodge and Chrysler weren't mentioned

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

That is how it looks to me also. Separating Ram from Dodge. News reports that Jeep alone is worth more than the whole business...

Also, when Marchionne did the five year plan last year. Dodge and Chrysler weren't mentioned

It actually makes sense if you think about it. Dodge has the Chargallenger, Journey, Durango and Grand Caravan. Chrylser has the 300 and Pacifica. It wouldn't shock me one bit to see them just shutter Dodge and Chrylser and just role with Ram and Wrangler.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by shaffe

It actually makes sense if you think about it. Dodge has the Chargallenger, Journey, Durango and Grand Caravan. Chrylser has the 300 and Pacifica. It wouldn't shock me one bit to see them just shutter Dodge and Chrylser and just role with Ram and Wrangler.

Maybe they are thinking along the same lines as Ford. Eliminate all cars other than the Challenger/Charger. Ford is doing this with the Mustang.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe they are thinking along the same lines as Ford. Eliminate all cars other than the Challenger/Charger. Ford is doing this with the Mustang.

true but Ford at least has a full compliment of SUV/CUV and trucks. Eco-sport, Escape, Edge, Explorer, Expedition, Ranger, F-150, Super Duty.

They just gonna stick the Chargallanger in with Ram?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe they are thinking along the same lines as Ford. Eliminate all cars other than the Challenger/Charger. Ford is doing this with the Mustang.

Originally Posted by shaffe

true but Ford at least has a full compliment of SUV/CUV and trucks. Eco-sport, Escape, Edge, Explorer, Expedition, Ranger, F-150, Super Duty.

They just gonna stick the Chargallanger in with Ram?

They could just fold Ram back under the Dodge name and have the trucks, Durango, and Chargallenger. That wouldn't be the most confusing thing they've ever done.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

They could just fold Ram back under the Dodge name and have the trucks, Durango, and Chargallenger. That wouldn't be the most confusing thing they've ever done.

Rolling Ram back into Dodge would be logical, I never understood the reason for breaking it out to begin with. In the meantime I am awaiting my Ecodiesel Settlement check

[BlaqWhole]

The Durango is supposed to go onto the truck chassis but it got delayed. So I'm not sure when it will happen. FCA says it will be an extra 2 years. Whether Dodge will acquire Ram or what is unknown to me at this point. Newmoon, you're a Dodge fan, you should know all of this...

[rocket403]

When you look into the FCA corporate profits and company issues it does not look like the main issues are in North America as 85.5% of profits for FCA were generated here, not sure what happened outside of NA but issues in Europe and China look to be the main issue. The impact that those outside forces will have on the NA operations will increase the longer they not addressed.

The last thing I heard about the future of the Challenger platform was last year, and it was indicated that they would remodel the current chassis to address weight and handling, so we would need to wait and see how NA operations are affected by other factors to see if that changes the plans for the Challenger/Charger.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Rolling Ram back into Dodge would be logical, I never understood the reason for breaking it out to begin with. In the meantime I am awaiting my Ecodiesel Settlement check

The original reason was to make Dodge more of a performance division, Chrysler more upscale, and Ram kind of the "GMC" of FCA. All trucks all the time. It made sense back then, after walking back from making SRT its own division and back when Dodge had more cars. But, with Dart and 200 dead it makes less sense these days.

So now they have Chrysler with 2 nameplates. Really just one (Pacifica) when 300 goes away, and Dodge with 5 (Challenger, Charger, Durango, Journey, and Grand Caravan, for however long that sticks around). Something's gotta give.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Rolling Ram back into Dodge would be logical, I never understood the reason for breaking it out to begin with. In the meantime I am awaiting my Ecodiesel Settlement check

My guess was they were going to can Dodge and Chrysler and sell Jeep and ram since those are where the bulk of the profits made lol

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The original reason was to make Dodge more of a performance division, Chrysler more upscale, and Ram kind of the "GMC" of FCA. All trucks all the time. It made sense back then, after walking back from making SRT its own division and back when Dodge had more cars. But, with Dart and 200 dead it makes less sense these days.

So now they have Chrysler with 2 nameplates. Really just one (Pacifica) when 300 goes away, and Dodge with 5 (Challenger, Charger, Durango, Journey, and Grand Caravan, for however long that sticks around). Something's gotta give.

They just keep shooting themselves in the foot huh