RIP 2012 ZL1 #1635 - Page 74 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Chevyman2 · 01-12-2014, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcarltonjr

Can we take a moment to entertain the fact it's a first year zl1 that was numbered? You can't replace that.

EXACTLY!!!

ChrisBlair · 01-12-2014, 01:46 PM

the insurance company doesn't care that we assign special value to an early gen 5 Camaro, be it a ZL-1, Lt, Hot Wheels, whatever

The insurance company is not in the Justice business. They are in the insurance business. They will pay out the least amount of money they can on what they ensured.

dvision · 01-12-2014, 01:47 PM

Isn't the insurance responsible for the sales tax as well? I believe they are here in Iowa. And don't think I have ever heard of an insurance co. offering another car. I would think they would offer a cash settlement plus cost of tax, title, etc.

Hall of Fame · 01-12-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

the insurance company doesn't care that we assign special value to an early gen 5 Camaro, be it a ZL-1, Lt, Hot Wheels, whatever

The insurance company is not in the Justice business. They are in the insurance business. They will pay out the least amount of money they can on what they ensured.

Logic . Aside classic agreed value insurance.

LuckyZL-1 · 01-12-2014, 01:57 PM

I would love to see GM step in and give this guy a brand new car! They can then just take it off the top end from the dealership.

BrunSS · 01-12-2014, 02:01 PM

I cant waiting to See how they will Händle this Case

mhoskins76 · 01-12-2014, 02:08 PM

Even if GM steps in and helps, it is not an easy thing to do. There are lots of legal areas to make sure the t's are crossed and i's dotted. Guaranteed the lawyers are working with the dealership to come up with a proper solution to all of this to get the issue solved and out of the spotlight.

lawdog · 01-12-2014, 02:26 PM

I am a lawyer, and I am telling you lawyer up now !

I don't give legal advice on the Internet and I don't practice in your state but I can tell you that what has been said to you so far by the dealership or local law enforcement on the criminal and civil aspect may not be entirely correct. I have a definite opinion about what your rights are and can't stress strongly enough to go find a decent lawyer in your county now !

mhoskins76 · 01-12-2014, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog

I am a lawyer, and I am telling you lawyer up now !

I don't give legal advice on the Internet and I don't practice in your state but I can tell you that what has been said to you so far by the dealership or local law enforcement on the criminal and civil aspect may not be entirely correct. I have a definite opinion about what your rights are and can't stress strongly enough to go find a decent lawyer in your county now !

I'm pretty sure he said that he has a lawyer now and they are working on things to get this settled.

Yup....he does.

"I have been laying low upon advice of my attorney, but I wanted to give everyone an update." - from the OP

TannerJPowell · 01-12-2014, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

the insurance company doesn't care that we assign special value to an early gen 5 Camaro, be it a ZL-1, Lt, Hot Wheels, whatever

The insurance company is not in the Justice business. They are in the insurance business. They will pay out the least amount of money they can on what they ensured.

Which is why the dealership, which is in the business of looking after your car after you drop it off with them, should make up the difference.

Otherwise the dealerships which disagree should post a sign saying "we are not responsible for damage to your vehicle by our employees, especially in the case of theft. We just give them access your keys. We told them not to steal. What more do you want?".

Whereby, upon reading said sign, customer can leave and not entrust their vehicle to said dealership.

Banshee · 01-12-2014, 02:48 PM

Here is the way I see this...

Said employee has access to the facility (Chevrolet dealership) where you, in good faith and trust took your vehicle in condition "A" for paint work under GM warranty. GM warrantied the paint, thus under provisions of licensing and warranty, the dealership, under the scope of rectifying a warranty issue was being repaired at a GM AUTHORIZED dealership and was going to be compensated by GM for the reparis, which, unless there is a specified clause, GM is partially responsible because GM would have compensated the dealer for the paint flaw under warranty.

The fact that the dealership was closed, the service writer opened a locked and closed for business dealership with the specified intent to take your ZL1 for a joy ride. That fact, on it's face is THEFT or otherwise known as unauthorized use of an automobile. In Michigan this is called unlawful driving away of an auto or UDAA. The mere fact that the service writer entered the GM dealership in itself is questionable and debatable, YOU nor the dealership specifically authorized the removal of your vehicle from the property for any reason. Whether damage was incurred or not, this is still a criminal issue.

Where this becomes an issue is that damage was incurred. Specified intent, use and damage solely rests, IMO, upon the dealership for a. hiring the person, b. not securing the keys for the customer, and allowing access to a closed dealership. The service writer is an agent of the dealership and the dealership is fully responsible for any incurred damage.

Lets look at another scenario...you take your ZL1 in for an engine issue, while on the lift, and the engine running, the lift fails and falls 6 feet to the ground, the engine grenades and caused the vehicle to be a total loss. Well, your ZL1 was within GM property/dealership....the dealer is responsible for making you WHOLE. By WHOLE means not giving you a ZL1 with the exact or less mileage than the vehicle you, in good faith, expected it's return to be within standards of service. You bought a NEW ZL1. You deserve a NEW ZL1, not a "comparable" replacement.

In my opinion, and although I am not a lawyer, I am a 24 year career police officer with MANY hours in court, I believe GM should sanction the dealership in question as the firing of the offending employee is "damage control" to satisfy the consumer who's vehicle was damaged beyond repair. I believe GM is liable to a certain extent as a company but the majority of the burden is upon the dealer to criminally file charges against the employee for breaching any written rule he violated by entering the dealership and removing the vehicle.

You voluntarily and knowingly sold 2 cars to get a new ZL1. This is a FACT. Your sacrifice and decision led you to take delivery od a NEW ZL1 the way you ordered it.

In order for you to be made whole, by law is for you NOT to get a COMPARABLE ZL1, that was used, abused, pre owned or otherwise....But to recieve a NEW ZL1 EXACTLY as you ordered it and took delivery of.

I come to my opinion based on basic common sense.

If perchance someone did the exact same thing to my 2013 1LE Inferno Orange Camaro which incidentally was the LAST IOM built on June 30th 2013, the replacement value is that I would expect AND want the LAST IOM 2013 because that is what I had.

I would never settle for a pre owned ZL1 for a few reasons. I take care of my cars, I chose to drive it and nurture and respect it. I, nor you deserve seconds of anything. If you do choose to take a comparable ZL1, I would consider a cash voucher for an agreeable sum of money, lifetime oil synthetic changes and a service warranty that extends the life of the replacement ZL1 for as long as you own it.

RedZL1 · 01-12-2014, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hall of Fame

What he done was make an ass out of himself to the world. He wasn't man enough to let it go and work one on one with his insurance co. but looking for a reason for making a name for himself. Boo hoo hoo.

@Hall of Fame....
Why are you so butthurt, resorting to personal insults on the OP? Is your name Mr. Hansen?....perhaps related in some way?

Judging by the overwhelming positive support the OP has garnered on this site as well as others (yellowbullet) I think you're the one who has clearly made an ass out of himself for all on this forum (and the world) to see. So now you call the OP's "manhood" into question because the OP posted his experience on this forum? I guess you being a real man and all, you would take what ever shitty deal was being thrown at you, stfu, and be happy with it?

It's laughable you later go on to chastise people for forming a negative opinion of the d!ckbag who stole the car, telling people to "look in the mirror" when the perp is labeled as trailer trash, yet you have no problem passing judgement on Mr. hooper who is the real victim here. Take your own advice and look in the mirror, my guess is you won't like what you see staring back at you.

It appears as though your attitude and that of the dealer go hand in hand, hence the reason they are getting hammered in the court of public opinion.

I bet if this same thing were to happen to one of your prized possessions you'd set a decibel record for how loud you whine....

TurtleTamer · 01-12-2014, 02:59 PM

I know this is my first post on this forum, and I also don't really have any new perspective to add that hasn't already been said. I have read the whole thread along with the articles out there on the internet, and I hope the Hoopers are made whole, to THEIR satisfaction.

I heard about this story from a Mitsubishi forum, if that gives any idea how far this story has spread its fingers. Being a fellow Camaro owner and enthusiast I just felt I wanted to add my sentiments here and also to report that I left a google+ review back when the average was still at 3.4 stars.

Telco10 · 01-12-2014, 03:01 PM

Hello, new member here. I came across this thread from a Lincoln LS board, so the entire Lincoln LS world as well as the Lincoln and Cadillac worlds in general are now aware of what this dealer has done and what GM's response has been. We're with you, OP.

If nothing has been done yet, I'd like to suggest that you discuss this strategy with your attorney: have the car thief arrested on a felony theft charge (anything over 5K makes it a felony) and have the owner of the dealership arrested as an accessory to felony theft. The dealer may figure that this will blow over eventually (especially if he's the only Chevy dealer in town) and GM knows that this will last until the next news story that comes along, and they will be right. Eventually this will go away. But, if that dealership owner is standing before a cop having his rights read to him with the possibility of going to prison for a few years, he will suddenly not care if it will blow over or not. He's going to do what he needs to make the cop go away even if it means offering to replace your stolen car with either another numbered one of the same year or a brand new one, and to pay all your fees associated with this event. Stick to your guns, we're with you on this.

01-12-2014, 01:46 PM	#1024
ChrisBlair Buick 455 Fan Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Boston MA Posts: 5,957	the insurance company doesn't care that we assign special value to an early gen 5 Camaro, be it a ZL-1, Lt, Hot Wheels, whatever The insurance company is not in the Justice business. They are in the insurance business. They will pay out the least amount of money they can on what they ensured. __________________

01-12-2014, 01:47 PM	#1025
dvision Drives: 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Iowa Posts: 25	. Isn't the insurance responsible for the sales tax as well? I believe they are here in Iowa. And don't think I have ever heard of an insurance co. offering another car. I would think they would offer a cash settlement plus cost of tax, title, etc.

01-12-2014, 01:57 PM	#1027
LuckyZL-1 Ragtop Rocket!!! Drives: Black on Black Convertible Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 809	I would love to see GM step in and give this guy a brand new car! They can then just take it off the top end from the dealership. __________________ ADM built 2013 Triple Black ZL-1 Convertible M6 ADM custom cam, LPE stage 2 heads with dual valve springs, LS-3 ported throttle body, LPE 2 piece pulley, LPE overdrive balancer, 10% overdrive pulley, ported supercharger inlet, ADM race intake system, stainless works 1-7/8 headers, Injector Dynamics injectors, ADM heat exchanger, ADM dual fuel pump system, ADM exhaust switch, ADM 3 tunes tuning package. 744rwhp 727rwtq

01-12-2014, 02:08 PM	#1029
mhoskins76 HTWEELZ Drives: 2013 2SS Hot Wheels Edition Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 1,018	Even if GM steps in and helps, it is not an easy thing to do. There are lots of legal areas to make sure the t's are crossed and i's dotted. Guaranteed the lawyers are working with the dealership to come up with a proper solution to all of this to get the issue solved and out of the spotlight. __________________ 2013 2SS Hot Wheels Edition 727 of 1524 w/ Dual Mode Performance Exhaust, Nav, and Performance Shifter. DELIVERED APRIL 22nd, 2013 and enjoying every minute since! Mods: Cold Air Inductions CAI, CNC Ported Throttle Body, Elite Engineering Oil Catch Can, Smoked Spyder LED Tail Lights, 12" JBL Sub, JBL Amp, Stealth Sub Box, American Racing LT headers and hi-flo cats, Tuned by Davenport, Custom painted interior pieces, Custom painted hood liner and trunk liner, Niche Targa M-130 wheels, LED side markers

01-12-2014, 02:48 PM	#1033
Banshee Institutionally Insane Drives: 2013 IOM 2SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Detroit MI Posts: 2,115 View My Garage	Here is the way I see this... Said employee has access to the facility (Chevrolet dealership) where you, in good faith and trust took your vehicle in condition "A" for paint work under GM warranty. GM warrantied the paint, thus under provisions of licensing and warranty, the dealership, under the scope of rectifying a warranty issue was being repaired at a GM AUTHORIZED dealership and was going to be compensated by GM for the reparis, which, unless there is a specified clause, GM is partially responsible because GM would have compensated the dealer for the paint flaw under warranty. The fact that the dealership was closed, the service writer opened a locked and closed for business dealership with the specified intent to take your ZL1 for a joy ride. That fact, on it's face is THEFT or otherwise known as unauthorized use of an automobile. In Michigan this is called unlawful driving away of an auto or UDAA. The mere fact that the service writer entered the GM dealership in itself is questionable and debatable, YOU nor the dealership specifically authorized the removal of your vehicle from the property for any reason. Whether damage was incurred or not, this is still a criminal issue. Where this becomes an issue is that damage was incurred. Specified intent, use and damage solely rests, IMO, upon the dealership for a. hiring the person, b. not securing the keys for the customer, and allowing access to a closed dealership. The service writer is an agent of the dealership and the dealership is fully responsible for any incurred damage. Lets look at another scenario...you take your ZL1 in for an engine issue, while on the lift, and the engine running, the lift fails and falls 6 feet to the ground, the engine grenades and caused the vehicle to be a total loss. Well, your ZL1 was within GM property/dealership....the dealer is responsible for making you WHOLE. By WHOLE means not giving you a ZL1 with the exact or less mileage than the vehicle you, in good faith, expected it's return to be within standards of service. You bought a NEW ZL1. You deserve a NEW ZL1, not a "comparable" replacement. In my opinion, and although I am not a lawyer, I am a 24 year career police officer with MANY hours in court, I believe GM should sanction the dealership in question as the firing of the offending employee is "damage control" to satisfy the consumer who's vehicle was damaged beyond repair. I believe GM is liable to a certain extent as a company but the majority of the burden is upon the dealer to criminally file charges against the employee for breaching any written rule he violated by entering the dealership and removing the vehicle. You voluntarily and knowingly sold 2 cars to get a new ZL1. This is a FACT. Your sacrifice and decision led you to take delivery od a NEW ZL1 the way you ordered it. In order for you to be made whole, by law is for you NOT to get a COMPARABLE ZL1, that was used, abused, pre owned or otherwise....But to recieve a NEW ZL1 EXACTLY as you ordered it and took delivery of. I come to my opinion based on basic common sense. If perchance someone did the exact same thing to my 2013 1LE Inferno Orange Camaro which incidentally was the LAST IOM built on June 30th 2013, the replacement value is that I would expect AND want the LAST IOM 2013 because that is what I had. I would never settle for a pre owned ZL1 for a few reasons. I take care of my cars, I chose to drive it and nurture and respect it. I, nor you deserve seconds of anything. If you do choose to take a comparable ZL1, I would consider a cash voucher for an agreeable sum of money, lifetime oil synthetic changes and a service warranty that extends the life of the replacement ZL1 for as long as you own it. __________________ It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?

01-12-2014, 02:01 PM	#1028
BrunSS Drives: VR ZL 1 Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Alamogordo ,NM Posts: 272	I cant waiting to See how they will Händle this Case

01-12-2014, 02:26 PM	#1030
lawdog Drives: 2010 SSII w RS & Sunroof Yellow Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: West Suburbs of Chicago, in a Courthouse Somewhere Posts: 953	I am a lawyer, and I am telling you lawyer up now ! I don't give legal advice on the Internet and I don't practice in your state but I can tell you that what has been said to you so far by the dealership or local law enforcement on the criminal and civil aspect may not be entirely correct. I have a definite opinion about what your rights are and can't stress strongly enough to go find a decent lawyer in your county now !

01-12-2014, 02:59 PM	#1035
TurtleTamer Drives: 1991 Camaro RS Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 5	I know this is my first post on this forum, and I also don't really have any new perspective to add that hasn't already been said. I have read the whole thread along with the articles out there on the internet, and I hope the Hoopers are made whole, to THEIR satisfaction. I heard about this story from a Mitsubishi forum, if that gives any idea how far this story has spread its fingers. Being a fellow Camaro owner and enthusiast I just felt I wanted to add my sentiments here and also to report that I left a google+ review back when the average was still at 3.4 stars.

01-12-2014, 03:01 PM	#1036
Telco10 Drives: Chevy Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1	Hello, new member here. I came across this thread from a Lincoln LS board, so the entire Lincoln LS world as well as the Lincoln and Cadillac worlds in general are now aware of what this dealer has done and what GM's response has been. We're with you, OP. If nothing has been done yet, I'd like to suggest that you discuss this strategy with your attorney: have the car thief arrested on a felony theft charge (anything over 5K makes it a felony) and have the owner of the dealership arrested as an accessory to felony theft. The dealer may figure that this will blow over eventually (especially if he's the only Chevy dealer in town) and GM knows that this will last until the next news story that comes along, and they will be right. Eventually this will go away. But, if that dealership owner is standing before a cop having his rights read to him with the possibility of going to prison for a few years, he will suddenly not care if it will blow over or not. He's going to do what he needs to make the cop go away even if it means offering to replace your stolen car with either another numbered one of the same year or a brand new one, and to pay all your fees associated with this event. Stick to your guns, we're with you on this.