[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

At $80k, I'm not even thinking Mustang. Maybe..............maybe the Super Snake. But, it depends on what kind of car I'm in the mood for.

It better have at least 750 hp, handle better than the ZL1 1LE, AND have a ton of creature comforts at that price.

[BlaqWhole]

LOL, looking over at the M6, those guys sure are a bunch of knuckle heads. I think it is clear that they were not happy with the results of the comparison after spending all that money on that car. I don't feel bad at all. I think the GT350 is a little behind the times. If it had came out in 14 then I think it could have been a performance hit compared to what else was out. But performance advances in leaps and bounds. I think GM made the ZL1 while considering what the future might require. They brought a gun to a knife fight and were prepared. Ford to me seems like they tried too hard and put too much effore into an expensive NA engine and then cut corners to keep it priced somewhat reasonable...but still came up short. I mean at some point you gotta look at the performance and the price and compare it to the competition and see what the competition is offering in terms of options and then make logical choices. And compared to whats out there, the GT350R is probably the worst car you can buy for the money. I think that car is a failure on soo many levels it ain't even funny. And even worst is that all they have is the underwhelming GT and the super-expensively underperforming GT350 and GT350R. Sucks for them.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I see your point but I don't think Ford can put out something to keep up with the ZL1 at a comparable price. Unless they sacrifice and make it more of a straight line beast and leave the cornering stuff just sufficient. The GT350R already came in at mid $60K and couldn't corner well enough to beat the ZL1. So they would need at the very least the GT350R's handling capabilities. Then they would have to increase the hp/tq and that will require forced induction, stronger internals, beefier trans, and better brakes. And then what about options? Will they just throw a radio in and some basic creature comforts? Or will they need to add in stuff like heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, etc? After all that do you really think they can keep a price that matches the ZL1? Because I really don't think so. And then they would still have the ZL1 1LE. I don't see how they can do all that and remain in the same price range.

Yes I think they can, IMO the rumored 500 is basically going to be a GT350 with out the Voodoo. Most likely either a supercharged 5.0 or supercharged cross plane crank 5.2 I would have to imagine those engines would cost less or about the same to produce as the Voodoo. Even the 350R with the Electronics package is MSRP 67K, so yes I think they can build a 500 to compete with the ZL1 at a similar price or at least a competitive price to the ZL1. Ford is not stupid, they know whatever car they build next needs to be priced in line and compete with the ZL1.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

To keep it going it seems that the GT350 and GT350R is not getting the refresh that the EB and GT Mustangs will get. And it still is only gonna be offered with the 6 speed manual. The GT is getting the A10 trans and for now it is rumored to be getting either 455 or 475 hp. The GT350 and GT350R will be virtually unchanged. So I wonder how that will affect pricing when the GT inches closer to the quarter mile time of the Shelbys.

I don't know how many times we have to tell you that that does NOT matter. The 350 was not built for the 1/4, just like the Z/28 was not built 1/4. Now if they start creeping up on lap times, then I agree with you, that is going to be a problem. But Ford will probably undertire the cars as they have in the past.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, looking over at the M6, those guys sure are a bunch of knuckle heads. I think it is clear that they were not happy with the results of the comparison after spending all that money on that car. I don't feel bad at all. I think the GT350 is a little behind the times. If it had came out in 14 then I think it could have been a performance hit compared to what else was out. But performance advances in leaps and bounds. I think GM made the ZL1 while considering what the future might require. They brought a gun to a knife fight and were prepared. Ford to me seems like they tried too hard and put too much effore into an expensive NA engine and then cut corners to keep it priced somewhat reasonable...but still came up short. I mean at some point you gotta look at the performance and the price and compare it to the competition and see what the competition is offering in terms of options and then make logical choices. And compared to whats out there, the GT350R is probably the worst car you can buy for the money. I think that car is a failure on soo many levels it ain't even funny. And even worst is that all they have is the underwhelming GT and the super-expensively underperforming GT350 and GT350R. Sucks for them.

Agree and disagree with some points here. GM put the world on notice with a N/A track focused pony car, Ford was not going to let that get away from them. Now GM stepped it up big time again with the ZL1. Ford needs to set their internal bar higher, like GM does. The ZL1 is an amazing GT car, does everything well.


Just answer me this though, lets go into bizarro world. Say the ZL1 doesn't exist, and instead GM Built an N/A track focused car to beat the 350R and succeeds, but then Ford releases a GT500 that soundly beats the hyptothetical GM car in every measurable and beats it around a road course. Are you going to say that GM car is the "worst car you can buy for the money"?

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, looking over at the M6, those guys sure are a bunch of knuckle heads. I think it is clear that they were not happy with the results of the comparison after spending all that money on that car. I don't feel bad at all. I think the GT350 is a little behind the times. If it had came out in 14 then I think it could have been a performance hit compared to what else was out. But performance advances in leaps and bounds. I think GM made the ZL1 while considering what the future might require. They brought a gun to a knife fight and were prepared. Ford to me seems like they tried too hard and put too much effore into an expensive NA engine and then cut corners to keep it priced somewhat reasonable...but still came up short. I mean at some point you gotta look at the performance and the price and compare it to the competition and see what the competition is offering in terms of options and then make logical choices. And compared to whats out there, the GT350R is probably the worst car you can buy for the money. I think that car is a failure on soo many levels it ain't even funny. And even worst is that all they have is the underwhelming GT and the super-expensively underperforming GT350 and GT350R. Sucks for them.

The GT350R came in as last years number 2 drivers car from motortrend. It is often compared to vehicles costing well over double it's pricepoint. How exactly did this come up short? They are still in an extremely high demand. People love them not because of their exclusivity, but because they have a soul.

Honestly, you seem a bit insecure about your decision by trolling other forums and reporting back here. It's funny, most GT350 owners seem confident with their decision, regardless of the outcome of motortrends head to head.

How are any of you going to feel when the new ZL1 1LE wipes the base ZL1's ass on track? Or when a new Corvette...or a new GT500 kills the 1LE? There is always going to be a newer faster car. At some point in time you need to sit down and look at how the car makes you feel...not in the 1/4 mile or around a road course you will never see in person.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It better have at least 750 hp, handle better than the ZL1 1LE, AND have a ton of creature comforts at that price.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does it need 750-hp? I think the MT shootout already proved the 350R handles better than the ZL1, it just didn't have enough hp. Add 50-rwhp and 50-rwtq to the present setup and IMO it would compete very nicely.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The GT350R came in as last years number 2 drivers car from motortrend. It is often compared to vehicles costing well over double it's pricepoint. How exactly did this come up short?

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

How are any of you going to feel when the new ZL1 1LE wipes the base ZL1's ass on track?

It's a more expensive track pack...shouldn't it beat the base ZL1 around a track??

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Or when a new Corvette...or a new GT500 kills the 1LE?

The 1LE package can be added to multiple Camaro's, which are you referring to? Both the Corvette and GT500 cost more than a SS or V6 1LE so they better be faster. Which Corvette will be faster than the ZL1 1LE on a track and how much will that cost? The GT500 is a big question mark at the moment. Given the larger problems at FoMoCo presently I suspect the GT500 isn't a fiscal priority. I hope it comes and I hope it's spectacular but right now it's only hope.

Originally Posted by newmoon

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does it need 750-hp? I think the MT shootout already proved the 350R handles better than the ZL1, it just didn't have enough hp. Add 50-rwhp and 50-rwtq to the present setup and IMO it would compete very nicely.

Yet the addition of power requires more weight to make, and more weight to support. Look what happened to the Challenger weight from 5.7 to 6.4 to Hellcat. Without implementing exotic materials or removing creature comforts it is likely going to gain weight which will impact its current cornering.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yes I think they can, IMO the rumored 500 is basically going to be a GT350 with out the Voodoo. Most likely either a supercharged 5.0 or supercharged cross plane crank 5.2 I would have to imagine those engines would cost less or about the same to produce as the Voodoo. Even the 350R with the Electronics package is MSRP 67K, so yes I think they can build a 500 to compete with the ZL1 at a similar price or at least a competitive price to the ZL1. Ford is not stupid, they know whatever car they build next needs to be priced in line and compete with the ZL1.



I don't know how many times we have to tell you that that does NOT matter. The 350 was not built for the 1/4, just like the Z/28 was not built 1/4. Now if they start creeping up on lap times, then I agree with you, that is going to be a problem. But Ford will probably undertire the cars as they have in the past.



Agree and disagree with some points here. GM put the world on notice with a N/A track focused pony car, Ford was not going to let that get away from them. Now GM stepped it up big time again with the ZL1. Ford needs to set their internal bar higher, like GM does. The ZL1 is an amazing GT car, does everything well.


Just answer me this though, lets go into bizarro world. Say the ZL1 doesn't exist, and instead GM Built an N/A track focused car to beat the 350R and succeeds, but then Ford releases a GT500 that soundly beats the hyptothetical GM car in every measurable and beats it around a road course. Are you going to say that GM car is the "worst car you can buy for the money"?

Well the 500 might not even be made for this current generation. It might, but I'm leading towards the thought that we won't see one. In order for Ford to keep it within a comparable price range they would have to ditch that overpriced Voodoo engine and go with something a little more practical. How much that'll save over a supercharged engine I'm not sure. If it is not a limited production then maybe they can get away with a lower price. But the addition of options like the competition has will put that price right back up there. So they will probably strip it down. But again, this is all IF they make one.

You can say it doesn't matter all you want. But 1/4 mile performance actually does matter when it comes to a performance car that costs over $65K. The Z28 at least kept up with the ZL1 and the pre-13 GT500. And that said something. The GT350R keeps up with nothing in it's class and that says a lot. People can justify whatever they want, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a car as expensive as that and only running a low 12. You'll have bolt-on SS Camaros kicking your tail.

As far as your scenario, if Chevy released a car like the GT350R and at the same price then I would have been very disappointed in them. I would have bought a Hellcat instead. The problem is that Ford built the GT350R to keep up with the times while the Camaro was built IMO to stay ahead of the times. And as such, the Shelby is behind the times and to me is a failure while the ZL1 is ahead and a success. Ford wasted time and money building that engine. And they had to strip down the car to make it worthwhile. And the trend shifted during that time. Because now competitors are offering these cars fully loaded at this price range while the Shelby isn't. And then dealerships made it worse by overcharging for them. I feel that Shelby buyers actually thought their car was better in performance and that made them willing to pay those prices. And look at it. It beats the ZL1 at nothing, it only beats the Hellcat in cornering, it beats the ZR1 (which it gets into the price range of) at nothing. It is no match for the GTR. And I wonder how it would fare against a Z51 C7. So it is literally the bottom of the barrel in cars in it's price range. Again, despite being stripped down. It is the best Ford offering, but against others I think it is pretty much crap.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well the 500 might not even be made for this current generation. It might, but I'm leading towards the thought that we won't see one. In order for Ford to keep it within a comparable price range they would have to ditch that overpriced Voodoo engine and go with something a little more practical. How much that'll save over a supercharged engine I'm not sure. If it is not a limited production then maybe they can get away with a lower price. But the addition of options like the competition has will put that price right back up there. So they will probably strip it down. But again, this is all IF they make one.

You can say it doesn't matter all you want. But 1/4 mile performance actually does matter when it comes to a performance car that costs over $65K. The Z28 at least kept up with the ZL1 and the pre-13 GT500. And that said something. The GT350R keeps up with nothing in it's class and that says a lot. People can justify whatever they want, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a car as expensive as that and only running a low 12. You'll have bolt-on SS Camaros kicking your tail.

As far as your scenario, if Chevy released a car like the GT350R and at the same price then I would have been very disappointed in them. I would have bought a Hellcat instead. The problem is that Ford built the GT350R to keep up with the times while the Camaro was built IMO to stay ahead of the times. And as such, the Shelby is behind the times and to me is a failure while the ZL1 is ahead and a success. Ford wasted time and money building that engine. And they had to strip down the car to make it worthwhile. And the trend shifted during that time. Because now competitors are offering these cars fully loaded at this price range while the Shelby isn't. And then dealerships made it worse by overcharging for them. I feel that Shelby buyers actually thought their car was better in performance and that made them willing to pay those prices. And look at it. It beats the ZL1 at nothing, it only beats the Hellcat in cornering, it beats the ZR1 (which it gets into the price range of) at nothing. It is no match for the GTR. And I wonder how it would fare against a Z51 C7. So it is literally the bottom of the barrel in cars in it's price range. Again, despite being stripped down. It is the best Ford offering, but against others I think it is pretty much crap.

The difference between you and people that actually want the GT350R is….you only care about how fast a car is, you don’t care about how it makes you feel. I’ve said it before, I can build a foxbody that will utterly destroy the ZL1 in the ¼ mile for $3K (including the car). Just because a car can scoot down the ¼ quicker does not make it a better car. If that were the case, no-one would ever buy anything other than the dodge demon.

The GT350R out brakes and out corners the ZL1. It shifts better, has a broader powerband and is more visceral than the ZL1. There is a reason it’s able to hold its own being down so much power and torque….you simply can’t see past your ZL1 superiority complex to see it. The fact that you are here, comparing the GT350 to the ZL1….GM’s flagship SUPERCHARGED camaro against Fords flagship NA mustang is telling. The fact that you find any and every reason you can to belittle the GT350 and its owners speaks volumes to your values and your brand loyalty.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The GT350R came in as last years number 2 drivers car from motortrend. It is often compared to vehicles costing well over double it's pricepoint. How exactly did this come up short? They are still in an extremely high demand. People love them not because of their exclusivity, but because they have a soul.

Honestly, you seem a bit insecure about your decision by trolling other forums and reporting back here. It's funny, most GT350 owners seem confident with their decision, regardless of the outcome of motortrends head to head.

How are any of you going to feel when the new ZL1 1LE wipes the base ZL1's ass on track? Or when a new Corvette...or a new GT500 kills the 1LE? There is always going to be a newer faster car. At some point in time you need to sit down and look at how the car makes you feel...not in the 1/4 mile or around a road course you will never see in person.

All that "soul" crap is just you guys regurgitating what MT said. Funny thing is, none of you were talking about all this driver crap and how the engine feels and soul and all that BS until MT started saying that. You guys were all about the performance of that car. And once it got it's ass handed to it, you then started to switch and say it has "soul", lol! Give me a break. I didn't spend money on a car for "soul".

I don't troll other forums. I watch to see the nonsense they say. Just like for months and months you guys, probably yourself included, would come over here and copy and paste what we said. So don't give me that nonsense. I see the things said over there and I comment on it here because I have no desire to associate with any of you.

I don't care that the 1LE is better at handling than the standard ZL1. Because I didn't want a manual trans and I didn't want a hard top. The 1LE does not have the things I require so as such it isn't even a consideration for me. The GT500 might not even show up so I'm not worried about that even. If it did then it wouldn't have a sunroof, it will be a manual trans only (probably), and it won't have the options I want like heated steering, PDR, and other stuff that the ZL1 has. So I really won't care because neither of those cars have what I want. Plus my ZL1 can be modded to keep up and it has great potential. And more than likely the 500 will be marked up by dealerships which I despise. And for the record, my car, knowing what I got and paid for compared to what else is out there, I could not have made a better decision. At some point tho you GT350R owners are gonna have to wake up and realize that you got ripped off with the markups and stop trying to justify your overpaid cars. Driver experience means nothing to me when you come in last place in a car you paid $10K more for.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

All that "soul" crap is just you guys regurgitating what MT said. Funny thing is, none of you were talking about all this driver crap and how the engine feels and soul and all that BS until MT started saying that. You guys were all about the performance of that car. And once it got it's ass handed to it, you then started to switch and say it has "soul", lol! Give me a break. I didn't spend money on a car for "soul".

I don't troll other forums. I watch to see the nonsense they say. Just like for months and months you guys, probably yourself included, would come over here and copy and paste what we said. So don't give me that nonsense. I see the things said over there and I comment on it here because I have no desire to associate with any of you.

I don't care that the 1LE is better at handling than the standard ZL1. Because I didn't want a manual trans and I didn't want a hard top. The 1LE does not have the things I require so as such it isn't even a consideration for me. The GT500 might not even show up so I'm not worried about that even. If it did then it wouldn't have a sunroof, it will be a manual trans only (probably), and it won't have the options I want like heated steering, PDR, and other stuff that the ZL1 has. So I really won't care because neither of those cars have what I want. Plus my ZL1 can be modded to keep up and it has great potential. And more than likely the 500 will be marked up by dealerships which I despise. And for the record, my car, knowing what I got and paid for compared to what else is out there, I could not have made a better decision. At some point tho you GT350R owners are gonna have to wake up and realize that you got ripped off with the markups and stop trying to justify your overpaid cars. Driver experience means nothing to me when you come in last place in a car you paid $10K more for.

People spend money on cars with a “soul” all of the time. Look at any classic car on a Barrett-Jackson auction and you’ll see plenty of cars with a “soul”….cars that originally cost next to nothing and yet are selling in the triple digits. The fact that you can’t see it with your comments isn’t surprising.

As for other forums, you watch what they say and report back here. I personally have never made a comment in the mustang forums referencing camaro owners or this forum. My intent isn’t to see what the enemy is doing and report anything I disagree with, it’s only to have good conversation with likeminded auto enthusiasts.

It’s funny, everyone seems to be ragging on GT350 owners about paying admin when a shitload of you trade in vehicles for an absolutely ridiculous loss just to have the latest and greatest. It’s an absurd level of hypocrisy, and one that seems to be done to try to belittle those who are able to afford what they desire.

It’s also funny that those GT350 owners…when they go to sell will likely lose less money on their vehicles (including the admin they payed) then everyone losing their asses on trade-ins. The funny thing about special edition Ford cars is….they retain their values extremely well.

Also an FYI, my GT can be modded to absolutely destroy your ZL1 for a fraction of the price. Does that make my car better?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The difference between you and people that actually want the GT350R is….you only care about how fast a car is, you don’t care about how it makes you feel. I’ve said it before, I can build a foxbody that will utterly destroy the ZL1 in the ¼ mile for $3K (including the car). Just because a car can scoot down the ¼ quicker does not make it a better car. If that were the case, no-one would ever buy anything other than the dodge demon.

The GT350R out brakes and out corners the ZL1. It shifts better, has a broader powerband and is more visceral than the ZL1. There is a reason it’s able to hold its own being down so much power and torque….you simply can’t see past your ZL1 superiority complex to see it. The fact that you are here, comparing the GT350 to the ZL1….GM’s flagship SUPERCHARGED camaro against Fords flagship NA mustang is telling. The fact that you find any and every reason you can to belittle the GT350 and its owners speaks volumes to your values and your brand loyalty.

No, the difference between me and people who bought the GT350R is that I'm not paying Over $70K-$80K for a low 12 sec car with 526 hp. What thrills me is the excitement and the rush from feeling a car plant me in the seat and propel forward like a rocket. I've been in plenty of low 12 sec cars. My bolt-on 2010 SS was low 12 sec capable. And that was nowhere near enough to excite me. Sure we all could build an older car to beat the newer stuff. But it is nowhere near as classy, impressive, or reliable as the new stuff. I can drive my ZL1 to the track, bust off a low 11, then get in it and drive to a nice restaurant and look like I belong there. And any problems are covered under warranty. And it'll drive in a sophisticated manner on the street. A Frankenstein Foxbody built for that kind of time would be fast, but that would be it.

And I've said it before child, I HAVE gravitated towards Chevy. You don't like it? Oh well. The Shelby comes up short, way short. If the Shelby shouldn't be compared to the ZL1 because it is NA and the ZL1 is supercharged then it shouldn't cost more. Even if the Shelby brakes better, or corners better, that alone isn't enough to get it around the track faster. The ZL1 is an entire car that was built precisely to have all around great performance. The Shelby was built to be good in only certain areas which is why it fails on other levels. The Shelby might brake better but the ZL1 brakes well enough. The Shelby might corner better but the ZL1 corners well enough. And that is how you make a car these days.

And don't play that innocent role like you guys aren't over there badgering any and everyone who doesn't agree with you. We all know how you guys act because there are plenty of us who you guys ridicule and find every reason to argue with and bicker at. Don't expect me not to do the same. I'll call you guys out every chance I get.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

People spend money on cars with a “soul” all of the time. Look at any classic car on a Barrett-Jackson auction and you’ll see plenty of cars with a “soul”….cars that originally cost next to nothing and yet are selling in the triple digits. The fact that you can’t see it with your comments isn’t surprising.

As for other forums, you watch what they say and report back here. I personally have never made a comment in the mustang forums referencing camaro owners or this forum. My intent isn’t to see what the enemy is doing and report anything I disagree with, it’s only to have good conversation with likeminded auto enthusiasts.

It’s funny, everyone seems to be ragging on GT350 owners about paying admin when a shitload of you trade in vehicles for an absolutely ridiculous loss just to have the latest and greatest. It’s an absurd level of hypocrisy, and one that seems to be done to try to belittle those who are able to afford what they desire.

It’s also funny that those GT350 owners…when they go to sell will likely lose less money on their vehicles (including the admin they payed) then everyone losing their asses on trade-ins. The funny thing about special edition Ford cars is….they retain their values extremely well.

Also an FYI, my GT can be modded to absolutely destroy your ZL1 for a fraction of the price. Does that make my car better?

My ZL1 can be modded to absolutely destroy your modded GT. And you'll blow your engine trying to keep up. Actually, you'll blow your warranty even trying to keep up with the SS. So I'm not really threatened by you kid. The GT looks nice, I had one, but I am not impressed or threatened by one at all.

And the cars I traded in in my time, every time I've lost a shit load of money on a trade, it was on a GT. I've bought GTs and had them depreciate by over $10K within the first year of ownership. I took a hit on the last one I had and I'll never buy another GT again. Or another Mustang for that matter unless it comes with something worthwhile in terms of performance. You guys with the R, even if it remains at MSRP, which it won't, right off the bat you lost whatever you paid in ADM which in some cases is over $20K. My ZL1 would have to depreciate to around $40K to match that kind of loss, lol!!

And those Barrett-Jackson people are dudes with money who just buy shit for whatever reasons. You nor I are even on their level. Even if I was I would never buy that kind of car at those prices and not drive them. So how you think that even matters in this conversation is beyond me.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well the 500 might not even be made for this current generation. It might, but I'm leading towards the thought that we won't see one. In order for Ford to keep it within a comparable price range they would have to ditch that overpriced Voodoo engine and go with something a little more practical. How much that'll save over a supercharged engine I'm not sure. If it is not a limited production then maybe they can get away with a lower price. But the addition of options like the competition has will put that price right back up there. So they will probably strip it down. But again, this is all IF they make one.

You can say it doesn't matter all you want. But 1/4 mile performance actually does matter when it comes to a performance car that costs over $65K. The Z28 at least kept up with the ZL1 and the pre-13 GT500. And that said something. The GT350R keeps up with nothing in it's class and that says a lot. People can justify whatever they want, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a car as expensive as that and only running a low 12. You'll have bolt-on SS Camaros kicking your tail.

As far as your scenario, if Chevy released a car like the GT350R and at the same price then I would have been very disappointed in them. I would have bought a Hellcat instead. The problem is that Ford built the GT350R to keep up with the times while the Camaro was built IMO to stay ahead of the times. And as such, the Shelby is behind the times and to me is a failure while the ZL1 is ahead and a success. Ford wasted time and money building that engine. And they had to strip down the car to make it worthwhile. And the trend shifted during that time. Because now competitors are offering these cars fully loaded at this price range while the Shelby isn't. And then dealerships made it worse by overcharging for them. I feel that Shelby buyers actually thought their car was better in performance and that made them willing to pay those prices. And look at it. It beats the ZL1 at nothing, it only beats the Hellcat in cornering, it beats the ZR1 (which it gets into the price range of) at nothing. It is no match for the GTR. And I wonder how it would fare against a Z51 C7. So it is literally the bottom of the barrel in cars in it's price range. Again, despite being stripped down. It is the best Ford offering, but against others I think it is pretty much crap.

If a GT500 comes out this gen I think they can easily make it similar price to the Camaro. I don't think Ford would be dumb enough to make something costing way more than its direct competitor

Not going to beat the 1/4 dead horse anymore we will have to agree to disagree.

And I appreciate the honest response on the hypothetical question.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No, the difference between me and people who bought the GT350R is that I'm not paying Over $70K-$80K for a low 12 sec car with 526 hp.

That's all you see is a 12 second 1/4 mile. Someday, you'll learn. I've had daily driven 10 second mustangs and quite honestly, it's not all about 1/4 mile. If it were, I'd be driving a Tesla.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

My ZL1 can be modded to absolutely destroy your modded GT. And you'll blow your engine trying to keep up. Actually, you'll blow your warranty even trying to keep up with the SS. So I'm not really threatened by you kid. The GT looks nice, I had one, but I am not impressed or threatened by one at all.

You're modded ZL1 will destroy my modded GT? WTF lol. It's funny, I'm not threatened by a ZL1 either....because I don't street race. It seems like you have a bit of a complex going on....you do realize you can't always be the fastest don't you?

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And the cars I traded in in my time, every time I've lost a shit load of money on a trade, it was on a GT. I've bought GTs and had them depreciate by over $10K within the first year of ownership. I took a hit on the last one I had and I'll never buy another GT again. Or another Mustang for that matter unless it comes with something worthwhile in terms of performance. You guys with the R, even if it remains at MSRP, which it won't, right off the bat you lost whatever you paid in ADM which in some cases is over $20K. My ZL1 would have to depreciate to around $40K to match that kind of loss, lol!!

Come back to me in 2 years when the ZL1 1LE hit the used market and let me know about your loss. The more you pay, the harder you'll fall. The rare exception are those limited edition cars that hold their values. The 93 cobra R, 95 cobra R, 2000 cobra R, Terminator Cobras and Boss 302 all hold their values extremely well. The GT350 will most likely do the same. Just because a newer car is faster does not diminish the value of these cars (cars "soul" plays a factor here).

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And those Barrett-Jackson people are dudes with money who just buy shit for whatever reasons. You nor I are even on their level. Even if I was I would never buy that kind of car at those prices and not drive them. So how you think that even matters in this conversation is beyond me.

They buy shit because they can. You are the one that seems to think if a car doesn't go down the 1/4 mile faster than another that it's value is garbage. You just don't understand yet the value that cars offer outside of 1/4 mile performance.