[13vertss]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

there is none right now. there will be a 500 though.

how many ZL1-1LE's have been sold?

the GT500 will be a quicker/faster straight line car than either ZL1. I'm skeptical Ford will bother to build a version to battle the ZL1-1LE on track. If it turns out to be quicker on a road course than a reg ZL1 who will care if its slower than the ZL1-1LE on track? Those few who own ZL1-1LE's and the forum and magazine bench racers? That's too small a slice of the pie to chase after imo.

Well Ford went after the Z28 with the 350r, and how many have been sold since 2016? Not many, and yet that was the ONLY car to beat it. So Ford will go after the ZL1 1LE.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

there is none right now. there will be a 500 though.

how many ZL1-1LE's have been sold?

the GT500 will be a quicker/faster straight line car than either ZL1. I'm skeptical Ford will bother to build a version to battle the ZL1-1LE on track. If it turns out to be quicker on a road course than a reg ZL1 who will care if its slower than the ZL1-1LE on track? Those few who own ZL1-1LE's and the forum and magazine bench racers? That's too small a slice of the pie to chase after imo.

At least Chevy cares enough to build cars like ZL1 1le , if the GT500 can't beat the Zl1 1Le its a fail . And i would bet it won't . Ford just don't care enough.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

There are none I've experienced? Ergonomic?

You shouldn't have to build a car the way it was supposed to be in the aftermarket. And therein lies my distaste for Ford and the Mustang. They have the ability and just aren't doing it....or maybe they don't....

The only truly worthwhile versions they've built since the Camaro came back was the Boss 302, and the GT350R. The rest have been half-baked attempts. And it's sad.

Agreed. Ford has the capabilities to make the Mustang run with the Camaro performance wise and quality wise, but they always fall short when comparing model years. I have no idea why. That's the reason I've never owned a Mustang.

I'm going to seriously take a look at the GT500, but if that car has crap interior, no A10, and no fat arse rear tire, I'm passing. Oh yea, and a price below $100k without dealer mark up. You know these are going to sell for at least $125k when they come out with mark up included. A few hundred idiots will pay to be first in line. Ford wins.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

You know these are going to sell for at least $125k when they come out with mark up included. A few hundred idiots will pay to be first in line. Ford wins.

Correction: Ford dealers win....in fact, it hurts Ford for the same reasons you just stated you wouldn't buy one if it was marked up.

If I remember right, last year, there was a little blip on the radar about Ford trying to do something within their legal rights to compel the dealers to stop marking up the GT350s. I don't know if they succeeded.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

you can have what ever lvl of performance you want in a Mustang

Where’s the 650hp vert stang?

whoopsie, that’s a fail there too.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

It's not that FoMoCo doesn't care, its that they only care, just enough. Just enough to make profits. They, like most businesses are all about the bottom line.

I bolded a comment that sticks out coming from someone like you. Normally I can see your point if view and do agree often, but this "excuse" seems eerily similar to one you've made on multiple occasion in reference to your somewhat lackluster 1/4 mile times. By all means make the argument, but realize it goes both ways.

These companies make these cars to get us, the consumer, to open our wallets. How they do that is up to them. Make the most profitable vehicle in a segment via an arbitrarily chosen set of metrics, then put it to market. If the buyers bite, good, sell them more, if they want something a little different, tweek the formula, if they don't buy its all, scrap it.

They aren't out to fullfil our set of goals, to have the best handling, to be the fastest, to have the most power. They're out to fullfil their goal, make profit. Sometimes everything lines up and we get a vehicle that meets their goals AND checks many of the boxes we want, sometimes not. Do these companies care? To a point... but its their point, not ours.

GM produces great performers, that sell. Corvette is an icon. Camaro is everybit world class. Cadillac's V-series vehicles bring an awesome level of excitement to luxury.

Ford is selling niche performance left and right, FiST, FoST, FoRS, EdgeST, F-150 RAPTOR.

Mustang sells on a great deal of history AND its performance offerings. Is it the best in class? No. Does it need to be to make Ford money? No. So I wish they would aim to be the best performer in class? Sure, but I also realize that just because it isn't the best in some metrics, that doesn't automatically relegate it to last.

Besides I for one only ever worry about the performance of one vehicle, whatever one is mine at the time. I dont race magazines, I don't race fast lists, I race my car... and it performs at a level I choose.

I would agree with you if, and only if, these statements had been made BEFORE the H2H. The fact is that all these guys put all their eggs in the GT and GT PP1 basket hoping it would defeat the SS and SS 1LE. After it lost was when we started hearing about how it wasn't apples to apples or how Ford isn't trying. That makes it an excuse. And it is a loser's excuse. SSF sat here downplaying the SS and even the ZL1 for weeks. And that was only because he honestly thought it would do a low 12 in the quarter and actually be faster than the Shelby. He even went as far as to say that Ford didn't care about pissing off Shelby owners and they would make the GT faster. Those aren't statements you make about a company that doesn't care about beating the competition. This is all just his way of saving face. Now if the GT and GT PP1 had won, he would be singing a different tune. But they didn't, lol!!

I think there was a time when Ford didn't really care about performance. That was back in the 90s and early 2000s and it carried up until the Coyote. Since 2011 Ford has been banging it out with the Camaro. They even went as far as developing the FPC and throwing CF wheels on the GT350R to beat the then current 5th Gen Z28 and 5th Gen ZL1. But they were battling an outgoing model and got stuck with the GT350(R). Chevy took two leaps ahead and now Ford (and the GT) is stuck behind the performance of the GT350(R). They ARE trying to keep up. All the updates and increases shows that they are. But until the GT350 is gone they will be stuck lagging behind.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I drive this car most of the week for daily duty in addition to track days. I drove an SS over 1000 miles in 36 hours, and have had several long-term run ins with V6s and turbo 4s...I'm well versed in what all of the models offer in their function and ergonomics. Furthermore, the ZL1 1LE not only features the fastest tech, but the highest levels of luxury the Camaro lineup has to offer...So what "I want", and my ZL1 1LE is irrelevant to this conversation. You're still defending this ridiculous thought process that Ford is intentionally building a $hitty car!

Not all Camaro models are "track weapons". Maybe "competent" is the better word. But they are the best they can be in each form, and the best in the segment in terms of performance. And that is what BOTH of these cars are for.

Each vehicle in the marketplace has a purpose, and every other aspect is secondary. Trucks are built for working. SUVs are built for moving a lot of people and stuff. Sedans are built for commuting with several passengers, and coupes are built to be sporty.

The Mustang's purpose is to be sporty. And it is playing second fiddle to the Camaro in that aspect. Is has most of its existence since 1967, and today, even with the move to IRS (which everyone thought would be a game-changer); they still aren't putting in the effort to excel that they should be. It just seems lazy.

I won't keep arguing because this thread is going in circles...but it doesn't do anyone any favors to defend mediocrity as intentional.

Word.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

A hell of a lineup that loses to it's historical competitor at each level? Yeah, ok.

Funny, the Camaro has never offered the variety of model lineups as the mustang. As of right now, the PP1 lines up with the SS, the PP2 lines up with the 1LE and the GT500 lines up with the ZL1. Ford doesn’t offer anything that lines up with the ZL11LE, but GM doesn’t have anything that lines up with the GT, Bullitt, GT350 or GT350R. And we haven’t even got to talking about Roush, Steeda, Salleen or Shelby.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Correction: Ford dealers win....in fact, it hurts Ford for the same reasons you just stated you wouldn't buy one if it was marked up.

If I remember right, last year, there was a little blip on the radar about Ford trying to do something within their legal rights to compel the dealers to stop marking up the GT350s. I don't know if they succeeded.

true, the dealers win, but Ford still wins as it keeps their fanboys in a fit and remaining loyal. I just don't see the GT500 even sniffing the Zl1 1LE from an all around performance basis.

Btw, I saw my first Zl1 1LE today. O............M..............G. so sick. so sick.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I would agree with you if, and only if, these statements had been made BEFORE the H2H. The fact is that all these guys put all their eggs in the GT and GT PP1 basket hoping it would defeat the SS and SS 1LE. After it lost was when we started hearing about how it wasn't apples to apples or how Ford isn't trying. That makes it an excuse. And it is a loser's excuse.

You truly are insane, aren’t you. Not one single person i here or in any mustang forum thought the PP1 was going to compete with the 1LE on the track....not one. Why do you keep spouting off that garbage?

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

true, the dealers win, but Ford still wins as it keeps their fanboys in a fit and remaining loyal. I just don't see the GT500 even sniffing the Zl1 1LE from an all around performance basis.

Btw, I saw my first Zl1 1LE today. O............M..............G. so sick. so sick.

I don’t think ford will even attempt a zl11le competitor. They’ll be happy with whatever performance the GT500 puts out and then focus their attention on the Mach1, mustang hybrid and S650 platforms.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Btw, I saw my first Zl1 1LE today. O............M..............G. so sick. so sick.

I just took the cover off the front end today for the first time since before Thanksgiving, and I had the exact same thought....I miss it!!

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I just took the cover off the front end today for the first time since before Thanksgiving, and I had the exact same thought....I miss it!!

I was coming back from the mall today with my son and a maroon looking colored one pulled up. Nice middle aged lady with her son. Had paper plates. Brand new. Absolutely gorgy. My son was like, that car was sick. It looks so mean in my rear view mirror. She pulled up and rolled her windows down to tell me she like my Zl1. The profile of the 1LE was awesome. That spoiler. I want. Car was bad. Made me want to go out and buy one. haha.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Funny, the Camaro has never offered the variety of model lineups as the mustang. As of right now, the PP1 lines up with the SS, the PP2 lines up with the 1LE and the GT500 lines up with the ZL1. Ford doesn’t offer anything that lines up with the ZL11LE, but GM doesn’t have anything that lines up with the GT, Bullitt, GT350 or GT350R. And we haven’t even got to talking about Roush, Steeda, Salleen or Shelby.

Yenko, Lingenfelter, Callaway , Camaros has friends also .