[Raven87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Which then brings me to my original point, that they over estimated demand.

100% agreed. Anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves.

GM honestly believed this car would sell more than it has, regardless of the reason(s) it has not.

Hopefully this move will get inventory in line with the REAL WORLD demand.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

IMO till they fix there plant for paint Quality sales will be slow, fit needs to be fixed, and all the electrons need a good look at, i know, i am the only one that thinks this way, but to me this car is not all that it can be.

[Boilermaker128]

If the A10 wasn't having issues that shift possibly could've stayed. Demand would be double or more for the ZL1's. Also not selling to Canada for some reason...? Imagine sales will jump if GM could get the A10 in a bunch of other models ASAP.

[Michigan1LTRS]

You want sales to go through the roof. Kill the car for 10 years again, then you will see it. That's the advantage the 5th Gen had. The car, while very hot looking has settled into its niche market and selling at that rate. Yes quality can always be better, but that is not what is hurting sales. I personally would like to see the car as a niche seller. Besides, if GM needs this car to sell in droves, they are in trouble.

[brihorse]

Most, if not all, full-time employees will be picked up by plants within a 50-100 radius. GM ramps up production to launch a new model and once they saturate the dealerships with the cars and sales level off, they have the freedom to move around the employees to other plants. It all started with the elimination of the Jobs Bank which was originally put in place by the union to keep the company from moving production to facilities outside the U.S.. It didn't help that the demand for cars slowed down a bit, but three shifts was probably not sustainable without more product being added to the plant.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Michigan1LTRS

You want sales to go through the roof. Kill the car for 10 years again, then you will see it. That's the advantage the 5th Gen had. The car, while very hot looking has settled into its niche market and selling at that rate. Yes quality can always be better, but that is not what is hurting sales. I personally would like to see the car as a niche seller. Besides, if GM needs this car to sell in droves, they are in trouble.

They probably could have kept the 3rd shift if they could match Mustang sales, which has never been discontinued.....

[Michigan1LTRS]

Originally Posted by Thor142

They probably could have kept the 3rd shift if they could match Mustang sales, which has never been discontinued.....

Probably?? Show me the numbers on that. Think what you want. They are niche cars plain and simple. They are selling at that rate.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker128

If the A10 wasn't having issues that shift possibly could've stayed. Demand would be double or more for the ZL1's. Also not selling to Canada for some reason...? Imagine sales will jump if GM could get the A10 in a bunch of other models ASAP.

Who said A10 is having issues?

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Michigan1LTRS

Probably?? Show me the numbers on that. Think what you want. They are niche cars plain and simple. They are selling at that rate.

OK.... Camaro sales year to date 60,812 Mustang sales year to date 92,672

[Michigan1LTRS]

Originally Posted by Thor142

OK.... Camaro sales year to date 60,812 Mustang sales year to date 92,672

Sorry, but Camaro sales have traditionally been behind the Mustang for years, however, interestingly enough they absolutely crushed the Mustang in 2010. Hmm, wonder why. That bump is over and sales have settled to how they always have been. Mustangs outsell Camaros, period.

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

I don't think that would have made a difference if the 6th gen that we have was released a year later. I still strongly believe that the reason the 6th gen is failing to sell is because its design was too conservative. Sure it may outperform the other ponies in every way, but it still looks like a 5th gen so much that the average joe who doesn't geek over cars like we do wont notice a difference; its a played out style. They went evolutionary over revolutionary like ford, and to make matters worse, they have done little to nothing to advertise the new gen Camaro to a broader audience other than to the car enthusiasts. Its not just enthusiasts that buy these cars.

And many still defend the visibility issue and write it off as a non-issue, when it clearly is for many others, especially the unexperienced drivers.

Then, theres the huge price difference between the Camaro and the competitors... and the fact that most dealerships are ordering fully loaded $40k v6's and $50k v8's, dooming sales from the start. Just look at all the 20% or so price drops going around... its truly embarrassing.

If anybody's second-guessing themselves right now, it's Ford. I guarantee they're scrambling to figure out why Mustang sales plummeted. Maybe the Camaro hasn't sold as strong in it's first year but it's held steady and it's STILL priced above the competition even after the cuts.

If Ford's decision to make the Mustang look like a generic family car is "revolutionary" they can keep it all to themselves. My 6th gen is getting more looks and compliments than my 5th ever did. The "average joe" is definitely noticing this car.

The only thing I can agree on is the complete lack of advertising. What kind of sales do you expect without an ad campaign? Apple has the world over a barrel but when they release a new Iphone they make sure everybody knows about it.

[hotlap]

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/s...mped/93643802/

Mostly repeats a lot of what has already been discussed but this was new (for me anyway).

"The Mustang was better executed than the Camaro," Baum said. "The Camaro did go through some major changes. But, aesthetically, it did not change dramatically."

New investment

It's not all gloom and doom for Lansing Grand River.

GM also announced last week that it would invest $211 million in the plant for new tooling and equipment as well as a 32,000-square-foot expansion of its body shop. The company also invested $174 million earlier this year in a stamping facility at the plant.

The new investment will go toward a future product at the plant that GM has not named. It's part of a $900 million investment across three plants in the Midwest.

Wall said that the product will likely be the new generations of the ATS and CTS. He forecasts that production to start in 2019. A new generation of the Camaro could be in production by 2020, he said.

"The good thing about this is that there is a light at the end of the tunnel," said Mike Green, president of UAW Local 652, which represents the workers at the plant. "A layoff is never good, but you might as well do something (the investment) while it's slow. It will be great for us."

[motorheadkev]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

I don't think that would have made a difference if the 6th gen that we have was released a year later. I still strongly believe that the reason the 6th gen is failing to sell is because its design was too conservative. Sure it may outperform the other ponies in every way, but it still looks like a 5th gen so much that the average joe who doesn't geek over cars like we do wont notice a difference; its a played out style. They went evolutionary over revolutionary like ford, and to make matters worse, they have done little to nothing to advertise the new gen Camaro to a broader audience other than to the car enthusiasts. Its not just enthusiasts that buy these cars.

And many still defend the visibility issue and write it off as a non-issue, when it clearly is for many others, especially the unexperienced drivers.

Then, theres the huge price difference between the Camaro and the competitors... and the fact that most dealerships are ordering fully loaded $40k v6's and $50k v8's, dooming sales from the start. Just look at all the 20% or so price drops going around... its truly embarrassing.

when I started looking for a car I was leaning toward the Mustang.
when the prices dropped on the Camaro in October I bought the Camaro also because the V-6 had a lot more power and refinement than the Ford of Dodge V-6's. thank God for price drops.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

If anybody's second-guessing themselves right now, it's Ford. I guarantee they're scrambling to figure out why Mustang sales plummeted. Maybe the Camaro hasn't sold as strong in it's first year but it's held steady and it's STILL priced above the competition even after the cuts.

And GM would see a similar downturn in sales if for some reason a 'new' Camaro was coming out in 2018. The sadder fact is that GM never saw the uptick and sales number increase they were hoping for with the 6th Gen.

That is what Ford is seeing more than anything on the Mustang. Yes, winter is coming, etc, but a lot of would be buyers are waiting to see what the '18 looks like. It is very common to see a big downturn when a refresh or new model is coming.