Reliability

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

I bet. I think the one thing that stands true here, isn't how reliable the survey is, nor where the figures come from, the one truth that manufacturers know is the customer perception is reality.

Bingo ....there are so many judges out there....but the owners of the vehicles are the opinions companies look at as a valuable tool to use while making improvements. The customers drive the bus when it comes to quality.

[Snoman]

meh, IQS .... another marketing scheme to promote sales. If you asked about legitimacy of this separate survey I missed it, post #53 seems directed elsewhere, dunno. Perhaps you cannot see the forest from the trees. I am sure that there are some actual true usefulness somewhere related to these surveys to insiders like yourself, but these companies are no longer producing unbiased neutral reports like they used to for the general populous. The 3 year satisfaction survey is a complete joke and the little bit I know of the IQS is marginally better, just. Neither should be used as a sole decision by the public to purchase a vehicle, but JDP does offer a good starting point for potential owners to perform their own research on.

If auto manufactures produced quality builds in the first place, they wouldn't need to hire an outside firm or "IQS" to determine where the public found out about their dismal failure of QA. Meanwhile, saving $1 on airbag sensor goes unnoticed, killing thousands when they knew for a fact it was a bad decision.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by Snoman

meh, IQS .... another marketing scheme to promote sales. If you asked about legitimacy of this separate survey I missed it, post #53 seems directed elsewhere, dunno. Perhaps you cannot see the forest from the trees. I am sure that there are some actual true usefulness somewhere related to these surveys to insiders like yourself, but these companies are no longer producing unbiased neutral reports like they used to for the general populous. The 3 year satisfaction survey is a complete joke and the little bit I know of the IQS is marginally better, just. Neither should be used as a sole decision by the public to purchase a vehicle, but JDP does offer a good starting point for potential owners to perform their own research on.

If auto manufactures produced quality builds in the first place, they wouldn't need to hire an outside firm or "IQS" to determine where the public found out about their dismal failure of QA. Meanwhile, saving $1 on airbag sensor goes unnoticed, killing thousands when they knew for a fact it was a bad decision.

I still think the best survey is the 3 years of ownership. It lets the buyer settle in with the vehicle...any quality issues become apparant and warranty work has usuallly been done and documented. This gives a better indication of any long term issues that need to be dealt with. 3 months is kinda like having a new girlfriend....in the beginning things are good...but as time goes by you start to see the quality issues and what future warranty work will need to be done.

[Wizard1183]

That survey is so skewed its better off used as Toilet Paper. My 2010 Camaro SS2 I bought used because they discontinued the ABM color. I bought it with 16.5k miles. Its got around 30k mi +/- 500mi. Cars 7 yrs old STILL running on original battery. It's literally sat about 1 yr without ever starting it an just got in, turned the key and it cranked right up.

What do I like about the car? It's a simple car. Not all the bells and whistles to break. Its a manual so less likely to have probs there other than a clutch change. Sure, theres sensors out the wazoo? But Nothing compared to a lot out there. I prefer simplicity. Simplicity=reliability. The more things you add to the mix, the more chance things can break. I've ran her hard. Real Hard. Sometimes only time I got in the car was to redline her. So out of the 13.5k mi many were just ran hard and shes still running strong.

[thegreatwhite]

Originally Posted by Mr. Stacy

Yup. Loved my E46, aside from the paranoia.

love the body of the e46 3 series coupe so much.

[PapaKlutch]

Originally Posted by Rocky1974

The first thing you need to do is STOP reading Consumers Reports. Their reliability surveys are notoriously unreliable. They only survey Consumers Union members and these are the same people that they have been preaching "Buy Japanese" to for the last 30 years. Believing one of their surveys is like believing a political poll that only surveys one party. Their tests are notoriously unreliable also. They are famous for rigging vehicles to get the results that they want, such as rigging SUVs to roll over and then deeming them unsafe because they rolled over. They have been sued over these practices several times and lost. The only thing you can count on as being unreliable in a Consumer Reports survey is the survey itself.

Bull. CU gets sued and these rigging allegations get made by by desperate manufacturers. No doubt they've made mistakes over the years but your characterization of them is flat out wrong.

Consumers Union has been sued many times and has never lost a case that I've read/heard about. They won many famous ones, such as the Suzuki roll over case, Isuzu Trooper and Sharper Image air cleansers.

IMO, CR magazine auto reliability ratings have always been pretty darn good. My experience in car ownership, and that of friends and family over several decades, has borne that out for me.

[Rocky1974]

Originally Posted by Snoman

False, do your research. Primarily because they place equal weight to someone too stupid to connect blue tooth because their phone updated 3 months after they bought the car as they do a check engine light.

Granted, I will give you they are arguably the least biased available. Regardless, nothing JDP and CR print about vehicles is worth more than a passing glance. Vehicles today will generally outlast you and BMW/Merc/Audi will still empty your bank account after the warranty has ran out. Purchase something assembled here in the States and you'll be fine.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Just because you spend 40k on a new fancy ride with an expensive infotainment system in it, you have no right to expect it to work. And just because that factory navation system system failed in the middle of the Mojave Desert and sent you down a dead end dirt road and you got stuck trying to turn around and damned near died of dehydration before you got rescued, you should still give the manufactuerer a good rating when you get that pesky JD Power survey, so they can can keep selling them to unsuspecting customers and save all that money that it would take to fix it.

[Rocky1974]

Originally Posted by SteveZ28

Bull. CU gets sued and these rigging allegations get made by by desperate manufacturers. No doubt they've made mistakes over the years but your characterization of them is flat out wrong.

Consumers Union has been sued many times and has never lost a case that I've read/heard about. They won many famous ones, such as the Suzuki roll over case, Isuzu Trooper and Sharper Image air cleansers.

IMO, CR magazine auto reliability ratings have always been pretty darn good. My experience in car ownership, and that of friends and family over several decades, has borne that out for me.

You better go back and read again. They have been caught cheating on their tests. They have been sued, lost, and forced to make public apologies. They may have won some cases also, but not all of them.

[PapaKlutch]

Originally Posted by Rocky1974

You better go back and read again. They have been caught cheating on their tests. They have been sued, lost, and forced to make public apologies. They may have won some cases also, but not all of them.

There are none I have found.

If you're sure, you must have sources to cite then on successful lawsuits against CR and verified cheating on their tests?

[race24x]

Originally Posted by CamaroFred

Why does the Buick cost more?
Better parts. A lot of little things you may not notice like steel tubing instead of rubber vacuum lines, upgraded bearing materials on the crankshaft, etc.

Ummm they are made on the same assembly line by the same people with the same parts. I worked at a GMC dealer and had a GMC come in with Chevy trim pieces on the side and a chevy horn button. They must have missed the switch on the assembly line