Electric Vehicles

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I would say that the most influence my team had was we nailed the intel on GT350 and GT500 so the Camaro team knew what was coming. After that it was all Tadge, Al, and Jordan Lee. By that time I was out of the Powertrain Portfolio Planning job and in Product Portfolio working on Competitor and Technology Intel. You do remember which forum you and I first met on, right?

Ha, yes of course. I had a temporary lapse of judgement and went with that 2018 Mustang GT! It was actually a really great car. I've been a GM guy most of my life; first two cars were F bodies - a 1987 Z28 and a 1995 Trans Am, both bought used. Eventually came full circle back into the ZL1 as you well know. And no looking back for me! I appreciate your knowledge and the insider tidbits you've passed on over the years. Keep it coming.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

…You do remember which forum you and I first met on, right?

Before some jokester says Tinder…

[Wyzz Kydd]

Hmm. Seems GM is having problems manufacturing EVs.

“The Detroit carmaker started producing its iconic GMC Hummer EV 15 months ago. All the manufacturing prowess couldn't help it build more than a dozen trucks per day, far below the target.”

“GM simply can't produce more, and those already at dealerships have been affected by a stop-sale order since last October because of water ingress into the battery pack.”


“Even so, it has only produced 1,000 Lyriqs since production began in March 2022. It aims to build 36,000 units this year, although this target seems overly optimistic considering how it has gone so far.”

“GM is not the only one struggling to speed up EV production. Ford is facing similar problems, with the F-150 Lightning production only resuming on March 13 following a stop-build order caused by a battery fire.”

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/a...le-211660.html

BTW, if your job depends upon working with legacy auto manufacturers I wouldn’t expect you to say anything negative about them or their plans in a public forum.

[bootss]

Things will eventually level out, EVs will find their spot. I think the market is just seeing how much people are willing to go for.

I can't imagine electric pickup trucks in their current form are here to stay. (unless you're just buying it to park it up front at home depot when actual contractors are trying to load materials).

There is a place for EVs, and some people will dig in to prove that place is larger or smaller than it should be, but they are the outliers. They don't wholly suck, but they aren't a silver bullet either. To add onto that, they are a new tech and that comes with its own problems / benefits.

No matter how you slice it, they aren't going anywhere, especially with people willing to pay 100K+ for a friggen "Silverado" with a battery pack. That is ultimately what drives the market, and until that changes, get ready for more of it.

Personally, I won't buy an EV because they don't fit into my life style, it's too cold for too long here, and the one dealer in my area is an asshole so I don't use it and independent shops don't really service the finer parts of those cars. So, what are my options? There are about 2 dozen different flavors of egg shaped soul-less cars out there, and then your go to sedans, / light trucks. We have a subaru sedan for every day, my pickup, and the camaro. Car manufacturers have started replacing fun to drive cars with cars loaded to the gills with tech that I absolutely hate. Don't need or want a big screen in any car, ever.

It's not that I'm dreaming of a wall of GM standard issue creaky plastic buttons like I just got into an express van, but man, there is a middle ground, isn't there?

I'm thankful for the Camaro I have, it's the only thing I own that I truly enjoy driving. Everything else is more utility than joy.

[snizzle]

This is interesting.

"Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car"

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/03/20/...nk-entire-car/

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by bootss

Things will eventually level out, EVs will find their spot. I think the market is just seeing how much people are willing to go for.

I can't imagine electric pickup trucks in their current form are here to stay. (unless you're just buying it to park it up front at home depot when actual contractors are trying to load materials).

There is a place for EVs, and some people will dig in to prove that place is larger or smaller than it should be, but they are the outliers. They don't wholly suck, but they aren't a silver bullet either. To add onto that, they are a new tech and that comes with its own problems / benefits.

No matter how you slice it, they aren't going anywhere, especially with people willing to pay 100K+ for a friggen "Silverado" with a battery pack. That is ultimately what drives the market, and until that changes, get ready for more of it.

Personally, I won't buy an EV because they don't fit into my life style, it's too cold for too long here, and the one dealer in my area is an asshole so I don't use it and independent shops don't really service the finer parts of those cars. So, what are my options? There are about 2 dozen different flavors of egg shaped soul-less cars out there, and then your go to sedans, / light trucks. We have a subaru sedan for every day, my pickup, and the camaro. Car manufacturers have started replacing fun to drive cars with cars loaded to the gills with tech that I absolutely hate. Don't need or want a big screen in any car, ever.

It's not that I'm dreaming of a wall of GM standard issue creaky plastic buttons like I just got into an express van, but man, there is a middle ground, isn't there?

I'm thankful for the Camaro I have, it's the only thing I own that I truly enjoy driving. Everything else is more utility than joy.

You and I have the same thought process. On the one hand it saddens me that the automotive culture will essentially go away, becoming a utensilized market where it doesn't matter which brand of car you will buy. All or most cars will look alike, perform in the same manner, and even to the extent that they will have the same parts. Gone will be the sense of style, mystery, adventure, and all of the good things that cars once represented.

On the other hand, I was able to experience the best of what cars are made of in terms of technology and performance. The current cars that I own, as well as other automobiles made in the past will be the cars that I will look for and admire. The strangest phenomenon may actually happen, that my next major car purchase may in fact be an older restored classic car. If ever there is a need to buy a car for daily driving, unfortunately it will be any car that has a good reputation and reasonable in price. The market will end up being ripe for Honda, Toyota, maybe Tesla, Hyundai and other car manufacturers.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by lbls1

You and I have the same thought process. On the one hand it saddens me that the automotive culture will essentially go away, becoming a utensilized market where it doesn't matter which brand of car you will buy. All or most cars will look alike, perform in the same manner, and even to the extent that they will have the same parts. Gone will be the sense of style, mystery, adventure, and all of the good things that cars once represented.

On the other hand, I was able to experience the best of what cars are made of in terms of technology and performance. The current cars that I own, as well as other automobiles made in the past will be the cars that I will look for and admire. The strangest phenomenon may actually happen, that my next major car purchase may in fact be an older restored classic car. If ever there is a need to buy a car for daily driving, unfortunately it will be any car that has a good reputation and reasonable in price. The market will end up being ripe for Honda, Toyota, maybe Tesla, Hyundai and other car manufacturers.

Funny you say this, very brand loyal friends of mine are already looking outside the brand for EV.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Funny you say this, very brand loyal friends of mine are already looking outside the brand for EV.

Its a twisted irony.

[Camaro fanboy]

we have owned our leaf for 5 months now. i must say it's a joy to drive.
for commuting to and from town it's amazing. cost's us 11 cents in electric. a petrol car would be 11 dollars each day.
for what we bought it for it's brilliant. no servicing to do. almost no road tax.
highly recomended the new model leaf. for long journeys we have my company van the camaro and our sons kia.

[90503]

Meanwhile, in the old battery department...This looked like a good idea...

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-te...da-california/


Company devises ingenious plan to use old lithium-ion batteries from broken-down EVs: ‘These batteries work very well’
Story by Richard Kazmer • 38m ago

B2U Storage Solutions
B2U Storage Solutions
© Provided by The Cool Down
Batteries that once powered Hondas and Nissans can now contribute to the California power grid.

It’s part of an effort by B2U Storage Solutions in Lancaster, California, to give new life to EV batteries that no longer have enough juice to power transportation on the road.

“These batteries work very well,” B2U’s CEO Freeman Hall told Ars Technica. “They’re engineered for very demanding use cases, and the use case in stationary storage is far less demanding.”

By storage, Hall means using panels to capture and contain solar energy, which is sent to the state power grid.

The old EV batteries can charge up to 85% of their original capacity. It’s a unique way to maximize renewable sunlight and utilize the growing amount of EV batteries entering the market.

B2U’s system is called SEPV Sierra, which uses the company’s patented tech to successfully reuse about 1,300 batteries, Electrek reported in February. Last year, this process generated more than $1 million in revenue from sunlight power sold back to the grid.

The company is working to include Chevy and Tesla battery packs in the system. There’s a layer of technology in place, including software, that can work with the different batteries. Safety is among the chief concerns.

“We’re setting ‘guard rails,’ if you will, that are fairly conservative,” Hall said in the Ars article. “If anything was to ever get to our guard rails, we just shut down the batteries automatically.”

When a battery reaches capacity, the software tells it to disconnect, rerouting the solar charge from the panels to another pack.

This second life doesn’t mean immortality for the EV batteries. Over time, they lose the ability to hold a charge. But B2U plans to maximize its use of the pack components.

“We’re definitely working … with the recyclers to make sure that that life-cycle management activity is handled properly,” Hall said. “Reuse needs to be fitting hand in glove with the recycling so that it’s all handled very effectively.”

Look for battery recycling to continue to expand. Companies like Lowe’s, The Home Depot, and Staples are part of battery recycling efforts, including single-use and EV packs, Electrek noted in a related article. And startup Tozero is working on a facility to recycle lithium-ion batteries in smartphones, EVs, laptops, and more.

B2U, for its part, is willing to go to work anywhere the sun shines. California and Texas are the focal locations for now.

“Solar is the cheapest form of energy in just about all 50 states, and you’re going to see the storage follow behind it,” Hall said to Ars.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Meanwhile, in the old battery department...This looked like a good idea...

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-te...da-california/


Company devises ingenious plan to use old lithium-ion batteries from broken-down EVs: ‘These batteries work very well’
Story by Richard Kazmer • 38m ago

B2U Storage Solutions
B2U Storage Solutions
© Provided by The Cool Down
Batteries that once powered Hondas and Nissans can now contribute to the California power grid.

It’s part of an effort by B2U Storage Solutions in Lancaster, California, to give new life to EV batteries that no longer have enough juice to power transportation on the road.

“These batteries work very well,” B2U’s CEO Freeman Hall told Ars Technica. “They’re engineered for very demanding use cases, and the use case in stationary storage is far less demanding.”

By storage, Hall means using panels to capture and contain solar energy, which is sent to the state power grid.

The old EV batteries can charge up to 85% of their original capacity. It’s a unique way to maximize renewable sunlight and utilize the growing amount of EV batteries entering the market.

B2U’s system is called SEPV Sierra, which uses the company’s patented tech to successfully reuse about 1,300 batteries, Electrek reported in February. Last year, this process generated more than $1 million in revenue from sunlight power sold back to the grid.

The company is working to include Chevy and Tesla battery packs in the system. There’s a layer of technology in place, including software, that can work with the different batteries. Safety is among the chief concerns.

“We’re setting ‘guard rails,’ if you will, that are fairly conservative,” Hall said in the Ars article. “If anything was to ever get to our guard rails, we just shut down the batteries automatically.”

When a battery reaches capacity, the software tells it to disconnect, rerouting the solar charge from the panels to another pack.

This second life doesn’t mean immortality for the EV batteries. Over time, they lose the ability to hold a charge. But B2U plans to maximize its use of the pack components.

“We’re definitely working … with the recyclers to make sure that that life-cycle management activity is handled properly,” Hall said. “Reuse needs to be fitting hand in glove with the recycling so that it’s all handled very effectively.”

Look for battery recycling to continue to expand. Companies like Lowe’s, The Home Depot, and Staples are part of battery recycling efforts, including single-use and EV packs, Electrek noted in a related article. And startup Tozero is working on a facility to recycle lithium-ion batteries in smartphones, EVs, laptops, and more.

B2U, for its part, is willing to go to work anywhere the sun shines. California and Texas are the focal locations for now.

“Solar is the cheapest form of energy in just about all 50 states, and you’re going to see the storage follow behind it,” Hall said to Ars.

Thanks for posting this. I’ve been saying this for a while. There are 3 distinct paths for batteries that are no longer suitable for power an electric vehicle…

1. Repurpose as storage as described in the article 90503 posted.
2. Remanufacture to provide lower cost post warranty replacement options. Just like remanufactured engines, transmissions, torque converters, starters, and alternators today
3. Recycle to reclaim the valuable minerals and components and reduce the amount of freshly mined and/or imported minerals

The expectation that landfills will be overrun with used lithium ion batteries is wildly overstated and off the mark.

[1fastz28]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Thanks for posting this. I’ve been saying this for a while. There are 3 distinct paths for batteries that are no longer suitable for power an electric vehicle…

1. Repurpose as storage as described in the article 90503 posted.
2. Remanufacture to provide lower cost post warranty replacement options. Just like remanufactured engines, transmissions, torque converters, starters, and alternators today
3. Recycle to reclaim the valuable minerals and components and reduce the amount of freshly mined and/or imported minerals

The expectation that landfills will be overrun with used lithium ion batteries is wildly overstated and off the mark.

100%, and the free market has ways to profit off of recycling EV batteries.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/29/here...cond-life.html

[The Maverick]

Tossing a bone to those who have repeatedly been told here that it's simply the market that is propelling EV's and not the current administration:

"The Biden administration plans to tighten car-pollution standards in a way that's meant to dramatically speed the adoption of electric vehicles, or EVs."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hold-...193629839.html

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by The Maverick

Tossing a bone to those who have repeatedly been told here that it's simply the market that is propelling EV's and not the current administration:

"The Biden administration plans to tighten car-pollution standards in a way that's meant to dramatically speed the adoption of electric vehicles, or EVs."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hold-...193629839.html

I think even Martin has admitted our gov(s) has, let's say, strongly motivated the process along although they aren't the only driver.

My theory is that a company like GM would still be moving in this direction as it benefits their engineering/manufacturing efficiencies but it would be much slower (if you can believe that - 2 Hummers build in their last quarterly) as they determine if the public is behind them. With proposed ICE bans in many states and many others leaning along with standards as you mentioned at the federal level, it's a no brainer for GM now. They don't really have to convince us.