Camaro overstock

[gss9909]

ok Guys my two cents. Every one that says Msrp is to high, ask your self this question. When was the last time I paid less than the tag on any thing in a store says. (that was not on sale, close out price or discontinued) Then think about when was the last time you walked up to a check out stand and and said "I know you want $50 for these jeans, but I will give you 30." Most likely never so geuss what you pais MSRP for those items and you do every day all day and mark up is much greater on everything else compared to a car, percentage wise.
Car sales are slower now so again ask your self why would a dealer cheap sell a car? If you were struggling and needed to sell things you owned would you sell it at what you own it for or would you try to make a fair profit and guess what msrp is what the factory thinks is a fair profit for a dealer. Sales people along with the managers and finance work long hours 5-6 days a week 12-14 hours a day some times more. And are only paid commision.
Wich is a percent of profit about 15-20% national avarge is about 10 cars a month per salesman. Lets say that "salesman A" as we will call him sells his ten and has a total profit of $10000, thats $1000 a piece. (That would mean of profit of car saleman do not get paid for d&H.) At 20% thats $2000. or $24000 a year gross. How many of you could survive on that, and put in that many hours? Now the managers get paid 5% of the profit of all deals, so on a floor with 5 sales people thats $50000 x 5% thats $2500.
Yes I do work at a dealer and have been doing this for a very long time. and I have done well for myself and my family, sold for 4 years then went into finance and the desk. And i have let deals walk becouse I was not going to make what I thought I was worth, not becouse I'm greedy but becouse I have to make a living and feed my kids keep a roof over there head and the lights on. i never force or push anyone to do what they think is a bad deal. People are willing to pay what they feel is a good deal for the item they are buying, and if a sales person can not make a car worth more than the price thats bieng asked, they are not good at the job. And if a customer cant see the value in one hell of a product then they don't have to buy. But please don't waste sales peoples time and don't paint them all with the same brush, they are doing there job and the only reason they get up and go to work is to make a paycheck and to do that they have to sell a car a profit.
No one asks you to go to work for free, don't ask sales people to do it.
Oh and the dealer him self has overhead rent floor plan lights water vendors hourly employees, insurance ect ect ect. It cost alot of money to run a dealer alot.

sorry about the long post and rambling I am just sick and tired of all the b*tching about dealers.

[Optimus Prime]

Originally Posted by gsxrpilot

$1500 is long away from reality. Most dealerships now pay sales people a 300 Draw! Not a paycheck but a loan against a pay check and a 15% Commision! In this case a commision sale for a Camaro at MSRP would net the Sales Person a $450 credit against his draw. I think I'd rather be a cop who doesn't want to pay MSRP.... The other Blue Collar Working GUY!

I thought about it later and I realized I was probably off on that number. Sorry about that. Don't you guys also get bonuses though, like if you sell a certain number a month or something? I'm just asking, not trying to be mean or anything. I don't have a huge problem paying MSRP, I just want to know I'm getting a good deal. And I know the Camaro at any trim is a good deal, even at MSRP. I'd just hate to buy it at that price, and then shortly after find out someone got it for a few hundred over invoice. But I don't want your wallets hurting either. Like I said, I know how hard it can be to make an honest buck!

Originally Posted by classicrockr

I agree - you & the Firemen are sadly underpaid. Every time someone tells me "Thank you for what you do for our country" I look at them & say "Thank you. Please tell this to the next Cop & Fireman you see also"

You risk your lives on a daily basis sometimes. I feel you often risk your life more than I do even though I'm in the military.

Once again, thanks for keeping us safe here at home.....

Thanks a bunch for your words, especially from someone overseas in the service! I have a great respect for all you do, and for you to say you think I work harder/riskier than you, is very humbling. THANK YOU!!

Originally Posted by gss9909

ok Guys my two cents. Every one that says Msrp is to high, ask your self this question. When was the last time I paid less than the tag on any thing in a store says. (that was not on sale, close out price or discontinued) Then think about when was the last time you walked up to a check out stand and and said "I know you want $50 for these jeans, but I will give you 30." Most likely never so geuss what you pais MSRP for those items and you do every day all day and mark up is much greater on everything else compared to a car, percentage wise.
Car sales are slower now so again ask your self why would a dealer cheap sell a car? If you were struggling and needed to sell things you owned would you sell it at what you own it for or would you try to make a fair profit and guess what msrp is what the factory thinks is a fair profit for a dealer. Sales people along with the managers and finance work long hours 5-6 days a week 12-14 hours a day some times more. And are only paid commision.
Wich is a percent of profit about 15-20% national avarge is about 10 cars a month per salesman. Lets say that "salesman A" as we will call him sells his ten and has a total profit of $10000, thats $1000 a piece. (That would mean of profit of car saleman do not get paid for d&H.) At 20% thats $2000. or $24000 a year gross. How many of you could survive on that, and put in that many hours? Now the managers get paid 5% of the profit of all deals, so on a floor with 5 sales people thats $50000 x 5% thats $2500.
Yes I do work at a dealer and have been doing this for a very long time. and I have done well for myself and my family, sold for 4 years then went into finance and the desk. And i have let deals walk becouse I was not going to make what I thought I was worth, not becouse I'm greedy but becouse I have to make a living and feed my kids keep a roof over there head and the lights on. i never force or push anyone to do what they think is a bad deal. People are willing to pay what they feel is a good deal for the item they are buying, and if a sales person can not make a car worth more than the price thats bieng asked, they are not good at the job. And if a customer cant see the value in one hell of a product then they don't have to buy. But please don't waste sales peoples time and don't paint them all with the same brush, they are doing there job and the only reason they get up and go to work is to make a paycheck and to do that they have to sell a car a profit.
No one asks you to go to work for free, don't ask sales people to do it.
Oh and the dealer him self has overhead rent floor plan lights water vendors hourly employees, insurance ect ect ect. It cost alot of money to run a dealer alot.

sorry about the long post and rambling I am just sick and tired of all the b*tching about dealers.

I'm not complaining about the dealers, I just want a good deal! I understand this is a hot car and will continue to sell for at least MSRP for a bit, that's why I began the thread in the first place. But even then, you have to admit that the general public in the U.S. has a bad view of dealers simply for the shady practices some (not all) of them are known for. And as for your argument about bargaining with retail stores, the opposite can be said for price gouging dealers who say, "we don't think MSRP is enough. the MANUFACTURER'S idea of what this car is worth is wrong. we want more of your money to stuff our pockets". That may not be what they're really saying, but it can certainly FEEL like it. And here's a difference between bargaining with retail stores and dealerships. $30k is a lot more than $3. Sorry, but it's true, and a car is a MUCH bigger investment than a toothbrush. Not to mention, it exists in retail in a different sense. I may not be able to bargain with the cashier at Wal-mart, but I can go to Target and get the same item for less on sale. Or vice versa, Target's usually more expensive than Wal-mart, so I can just go there and get the same thing for less, and what do you have? Target just lost my business. Either way, I want salesmen to make money, but I gotta watch my wallet too, that's all. I don't want to screw anyone, but I don't want to be screwed either. Sorry if my message came across the wrong way.

[gsxrpilot]

Originally Posted by gss9909

ok Guys my two cents. Every one that says Msrp is to high, ask your self this question. When was the last time I paid less than the tag on any thing in a store says. (that was not on sale, close out price or discontinued) Then think about when was the last time you walked up to a check out stand and and said "I know you want $50 for these jeans, but I will give you 30." Most likely never so geuss what you pais MSRP for those items and you do every day all day and mark up is much greater on everything else compared to a car, percentage wise.
Car sales are slower now so again ask your self why would a dealer cheap sell a car? If you were struggling and needed to sell things you owned would you sell it at what you own it for or would you try to make a fair profit and guess what msrp is what the factory thinks is a fair profit for a dealer. Sales people along with the managers and finance work long hours 5-6 days a week 12-14 hours a day some times more. And are only paid commision.
Wich is a percent of profit about 15-20% national avarge is about 10 cars a month per salesman. Lets say that "salesman A" as we will call him sells his ten and has a total profit of $10000, thats $1000 a piece. (That would mean of profit of car saleman do not get paid for d&H.) At 20% thats $2000. or $24000 a year gross. How many of you could survive on that, and put in that many hours? Now the managers get paid 5% of the profit of all deals, so on a floor with 5 sales people thats $50000 x 5% thats $2500.
Yes I do work at a dealer and have been doing this for a very long time. and I have done well for myself and my family, sold for 4 years then went into finance and the desk. And i have let deals walk becouse I was not going to make what I thought I was worth, not becouse I'm greedy but becouse I have to make a living and feed my kids keep a roof over there head and the lights on. i never force or push anyone to do what they think is a bad deal. People are willing to pay what they feel is a good deal for the item they are buying, and if a sales person can not make a car worth more than the price thats bieng asked, they are not good at the job. And if a customer cant see the value in one hell of a product then they don't have to buy. But please don't waste sales peoples time and don't paint them all with the same brush, they are doing there job and the only reason they get up and go to work is to make a paycheck and to do that they have to sell a car a profit.
No one asks you to go to work for free, don't ask sales people to do it.
Oh and the dealer him self has overhead rent floor plan lights water vendors hourly employees, insurance ect ect ect. It cost alot of money to run a dealer alot.

sorry about the long post and rambling I am just sick and tired of all the b*tching about dealers.

Does that mean you will not be selling Camaros at invoice?

[Rodrunner]

The haves have and those that don't wait. Now some may desire a more socialistic or marxist society where prices and incomes are set and extra effort gets you little and little effort gets you the same, but I for one prefer our capitalist society where you get what you've worked to acheive. I'm 57, have a degree, and have worked for an aerospace company for 30 years, but even so, because of other family/life restraints, this is the first opportunity I've had to realize such a dream. I'm fine with that - I don't want anybody to give me anything - I'll work for it like my father thank you.
So, I can now handle the $2500 markup, have the desire to be one of the 1st on the block driving, hopefully, the greatest muscle car ever, but if not, I'd live with it like I have for 57 years. If the $2500 markup put the car out of reach, I couldn't afford it to begin with, and I sure as hell don't want the car if that $2500 has to come from a dealer that quite possibly deserves it. Because like I said in another thread - the new Camaro is the lobster of cars for now, that's capitalism....live with it. And if you can't afford it now, it'll come later. The Camaro ain't worth loss of food on the table!


2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

The haves have and those that don't wait. Now some may desire a more socialistic or marxist society where prices and incomes are set and extra effort gets you little and little effort gets you the same, but I for one prefer our capitalist society where you get what you've worked to acheive. I'm 57, have a degree, and have worked for an aerospace company for 30 years, but even so, because of other family/life restraints, this is the first opportunity I've had to realize such a dream. I'm fine with that - I don't want anybody to give me anything - I'll work for it like my father thank you.
So, I can now handle the $2500 markup, have the desire to be one of the 1st on the block driving, hopefully, the greatest muscle car ever, but if not, I'd live with it like I have for 57 years. If the $2500 markup put the car out of reach, I couldn't afford it to begin with, and I sure as hell don't want the car if that $2500 has to come from a dealer that quite possibly deserves it. Because like I said in another thread - the new Camaro is the lobster of cars for now, that's capitalism....live with it. And if you can't afford it now, it'll come later. The Camaro ain't worth loss of food on the table!


2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

Political threads big no-no in here now.

[Mblock66]

There is nothing wrong with getting a good deal, we all want one. Hey I just threw 10k into the stock market last week and now own a whole bunch of great companies with what will be an amazing dividend yield. I got all that at about 40% off! All those stocks were on major sale and so I finally bought them b/c they were a killer deal. I wasn't willing to pay "MSRP" for those stocks and now I didn't have to.

My point is, you can bargain hunt all the time and there are always deals to be made. If money was no issue then you wouldn't be looking at a Chevy Camaro lol. In todays world every penny helps and paying a dealer MSRP or worst MSRP + is just ludacris. This camaro is nothing special other then hype. In 4 months it will settle out and you will kick yourself for paying 4k more then everyone else. Patience is the key!

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

This camaro is nothing special other then hype.

I can agree with most points...but if ^^^ that's how you feel, .... I mean...you've lost me. Why would you say something like that? Why would you be on the boards talking to all of us if the Camaro is nothing more than "hype" to you? Why? Obviously, ...I mean....it has to mean something more to you if you are spending your time here discussing the next generation Camaro, right?

[Evotion]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

There is nothing wrong with getting a good deal, we all want one. Hey I just threw 10k into the stock market last week and now own a whole bunch of great companies with what will be an amazing dividend yield. I got all that at about 40% off! All those stocks were on major sale and so I finally bought them b/c they were a killer deal. I wasn't willing to pay "MSRP" for those stocks and now I didn't have to.

My point is, you can bargain hunt all the time and there are always deals to be made. If money was no issue then you wouldn't be looking at a Chevy Camaro lol. In todays world every penny helps and paying a dealer MSRP or worst MSRP + is just ludacris. This camaro is nothing special other then hype. In 4 months it will settle out and you will kick yourself for paying 4k more then everyone else. Patience is the key!

While I have no problem with the majority of what you said, and agree that if you are in the situation that getting a "deal" is what is keeping you from buying the car, then by all means... wait, and be patient.

That being said...

You may think for yourself, but please don't think for ME (my wife does enough of that already).

Whether you choose to believe it or not, I have more than enough money to buy this car outright, many times over. Still... I live in a modest house, and don't live like a person who is capable of living a much more "luxurious" life. I recieved my 69 Camaro at the age of 14. Spent the next two years before I could drive, loving the car more every day. 24 years later, I love that car more than ever. Could I buy a more expensive car? Yes. Would I? No. And why should I? You see... for some of us, it's not a status symbol, it's almost a way-of-life.

I live and breathe my Camaro, and soon to be Camaro's. Thats what enthusiasts do. But to call this car "nothing but hype", is making a huge assumption on your part. You may call the way I feel about these cars weird, or obsessive, but...

...my obsession is no different than the people who devote their life to their religion. The only difference is that my "religion"... hauls ass.

[themossman]

Originally Posted by gss9909

ok Guys my two cents. Every one that says Msrp is to high, ask your self this question. When was the last time I paid less than the tag on any thing in a store says. (that was not on sale, close out price or discontinued) Then think about when was the last time you walked up to a check out stand and and said "I know you want $50 for these jeans, but I will give you 30." Most likely never so geuss what you pais MSRP for those items and you do every day all day and mark up is much greater on everything else compared to a car, percentage wise.
......................................
...............................
sorry about the long post and rambling I am just sick and tired of all the b*tching about dealers.

Comparing a vehicle to a pair of jeans is RIDICULOUS. I guess we should just pay 'asking price' for homes to (California exempt from this as they have it completely backwards )

Supply and Demand my friend. Why should we pay MORE for something when supply is UP and demand is DOWN. Times like this is when we should EXPECT to get lower prices.

It's not about what you may 'feel' is right or wrong...it's about economics.

[Mblock66]

You all misunderstood by hype comment. I meant it in the sense of dealerships and markups. The camaro is nothing but hype and a reason to charge msrp or more for a car. They don't care about heritage anything else. To them it is nothing but another piece of sheet metal to sell but b/c of all the hype they can try to demand a different price.

With this i am also trying to say that in a year these things will be all over the road and they will not be able to value this car where they think they can, therefore you will get yourself a deal then

So no im not here just to waste my time discussing a car i don't think is special lol, you read me wrong sorry

[roorback]

I find this thread to be quite interesting. You can see points from the consumer and dealer side. I enjoyed all the input.

For me, give me a Camaro 1SS for 30 grand with a sunroof and I'll buy it today. I'll be waiting around for some incentives to help me afford what I feel will be the last car I ever buy.

[Txturbo]

Originally Posted by gss9909

ok Guys my two cents. Every one that says Msrp is to high, ask your self this question. When was the last time I paid less than the tag on any thing in a store says. (that was not on sale, close out price or discontinued) Then think about when was the last time you walked up to a check out stand and and said "I know you want $50 for these jeans, but I will give you 30." Most likely never so geuss what you pais MSRP for those items and you do every day all day and mark up is much greater on everything else compared to a car, percentage wise.
Car sales are slower now so again ask your self why would a dealer cheap sell a car? If you were struggling and needed to sell things you owned would you sell it at what you own it for or would you try to make a fair profit and guess what msrp is what the factory thinks is a fair profit for a dealer. Sales people along with the managers and finance work long hours 5-6 days a week 12-14 hours a day some times more. And are only paid commision.
Wich is a percent of profit about 15-20% national avarge is about 10 cars a month per salesman. Lets say that "salesman A" as we will call him sells his ten and has a total profit of $10000, thats $1000 a piece. (That would mean of profit of car saleman do not get paid for d&H.) At 20% thats $2000. or $24000 a year gross. How many of you could survive on that, and put in that many hours? Now the managers get paid 5% of the profit of all deals, so on a floor with 5 sales people thats $50000 x 5% thats $2500.
Yes I do work at a dealer and have been doing this for a very long time. and I have done well for myself and my family, sold for 4 years then went into finance and the desk. And i have let deals walk becouse I was not going to make what I thought I was worth, not becouse I'm greedy but becouse I have to make a living and feed my kids keep a roof over there head and the lights on. i never force or push anyone to do what they think is a bad deal. People are willing to pay what they feel is a good deal for the item they are buying, and if a sales person can not make a car worth more than the price thats bieng asked, they are not good at the job. And if a customer cant see the value in one hell of a product then they don't have to buy. But please don't waste sales peoples time and don't paint them all with the same brush, they are doing there job and the only reason they get up and go to work is to make a paycheck and to do that they have to sell a car a profit.
No one asks you to go to work for free, don't ask sales people to do it.
Oh and the dealer him self has overhead rent floor plan lights water vendors hourly employees, insurance ect ect ect. It cost alot of money to run a dealer alot.

sorry about the long post and rambling I am just sick and tired of all the b*tching about dealers.

Actually, most retail stores don't sell anything at MSRP. Its already marked down to begin with. Only time you pay retail is if you buy it from the manufacturers website.

[Inspector 17]

It absolutely kills me that people are complaining about paying MSRP or anything over on this car. If you are looking for a deal, buy a Cobalt. This is a high performance 2-door sportscar that frankly is a lot of bang for the buck. And it is thanks to many people on this site that demand is high and that the hype has continued for the past 3 years on this car. If you don't want to pay to play as it was put, go get on the Aveo forum.

[Rodrunner]

First, sorry about the political blurb above! I assure you alcohol was not affecting my commom sense that night.

Originally Posted by camaropete

It absolutely kills me that people are complaining about paying MSRP or anything over on this car. If you are looking for a deal, buy a Cobalt. This is a high performance 2-door sportscar that frankly is a lot of bang for the buck. And it is thanks to many people on this site that demand is high and that the hype has continued for the past 3 years on this car. If you don't want to pay to play as it was put, go get on the Aveo forum.

You tell 'em camaropete! No seriously, I agree. The Camaro's been an amazing car since back in the late sixties, early seventies when that little bored out 283 was kickin' my big block Roadrunner's ass 8 out of ten races(if they missed a gear). And I think GM is building this new one right. So, the dealer hype and the markups are understandable. I for one will pay.....although that Aveo is a handsome vehicle.

As far as having unlimited resources, remember we're talking muscle cars here, not sports cars, and there's no other muscle car I'd rather have regardless of price, which is another great thing about this hyped up new car - you don't have to be wealthy to own one!!!

2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08