Is it the beginning of the end... again?

[arkentect]

I really feel as though GM is pricing themselves out of a larger demographic. Maybe not out of the market itself but definitely a larger sales demographic. The largest buyers of the Gen5 camaro with its 69' styling roots were in fact Baby Boomers. As studies have shown the baby boomers own the middle class. With the initial 5thGen camaro ss being a $35k-$40k car, that price range is right in the zone of what the middle class spends on a vehicle.
With GM pushing the camaro ss into the $45K-$50k range it priced a lot of current owners and potential owners right out of the SS. And if a current 5thgen owner has an SS they bought for $40k, they aren't going to trade it in on a 6thgen 1LT V6 for $35k (yes thats the cost of one I priced out with no tech upgrades).

[Ragnar]

The first time I checked out the 6th Gen was on a V6 model. Window sticker was over 40K. I know, I know, the car had a lot of tech and options, but a V6, sorry you can keep that. When I ordered my car, I just paid a couple of thousand more for my car. I have Recaro's, NPP, sunroof, and 2SS with the 1LE option.

If something happened to my car today, I'm not 100% sure that I would get a 6th gen. Another 5th Gen 1LE, strong possibly!

[arkentect]

Originally Posted by Sanjay Collins

Well, the dealership prices are different though. They have 1LT V6s and 2.0s here for $23k-$24k.

Washington ST must be different than the rest of the country. Here all the SS are $45k+ and the v6 are $30k+. Haven't seen an SS under $42k yet

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by vikingrinn

ok, i'll bite.

fans/owners/producers of the 6th gen are going to perhaps be a little defensive in their responses, understandably, but there are some objective truths playing out since the core markets initial reaction to the 6th gen unveiling:

1.) the 5th gen... 'updates' in '14/'15 were in the wrong styling direction...
2.) this... 'global' look continued further with the redesign of the 6th gen...
3.) product performance is evolutionary, but it's pricing is getting ridiculous...

Sorry, but 1 & 3 are subjective, not objective.

Originally Posted by Egon

I don't think GM is concerned one bit and here is why.

"DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors' second-quarter profit more than doubled to a post-bankruptcy record $2.87 billion on a strong performance in the U.S., where the company saw sales fall after it cut low-profit sales to rental car companies. It raised its earnings guidance for the year."

Full article here http://finance.yahoo.com/news/genera...113133995.html

GM has been focusing on making a profit from every sale over the past few years even if that means allowing market share to slip and it is paying off on their bottom line as seen by the headline above. The number of vehicles sold is not as important as selling each one at a profit. Because the Camaro is on the shared Alpha platform it is spreading the development cost over more than one vehicle line, and as a result I would bet that Ford has to sell 2 to 3 Mustangs to make as much profit as the sale of one Camaro. (just a wild ass guess from someone that doesn't know jack)

Sales 101: Market share is the top priority.
It's not to say that profit isn't important, but GM is definitely looking at volume. In the larger scheme of things, they're doing well, but they absolutely analyze under performing products & determine the best next step.

Originally Posted by Ragnar

The first time I checked out the 6th Gen was on a V6 model. Window sticker was over 40K. I know, I know, the car had a lot of tech and options, but a V6, sorry you can keep that. When I ordered my car, I just paid a couple of thousand more for my car. I have Recaro's, NPP, sunroof, and 2SS with the 1LE option.

If something happened to my car today, I'm not 100% sure that I would get a 6th gen. Another 5th Gen 1LE, strong possibly!

If something happened to my car (Lord forbid), I'd consider a 2017 Mustang GT.

[arkentect]

Originally Posted by Sanjay Collins

It is. That's why I'm able to buy new cars whenever I want. Lol. Here's a 1LT 2.0, 1LT V6 and 1SS where I bought my Camaro and Cruze from.

Just looked on my local dealers site. An almost identical match to the one you posted. 2017 1LT 2.0 Turbo Camaro $29,145

http://www.hoselton.com/new/Chevrole...00695c9aaa.htm

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Stormcloak

Whoops, my bad.

Sorry for hijacking.
Is that you coming out of turn 11 down the front straight at the Glen? The pic in your sig I mean?

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Sanjay Collins

Maybe because these are 2016 models?

I feel certain, with (lack of) sales being what they are on 2016 models, we'll see 20% discounts at the end of the year again.

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by arkentect

Just looked on my local dealers site. An almost identical match to the one you posted. 2017 1LT 2.0 Turbo Camaro $29,145

http://www.hoselton.com/new/Chevrole...00695c9aaa.htm

There is no such thing as a 2017 Camaro, the dealer is a fraud.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Snoman

There is no such thing as a 2017 Camaro, the dealer is a fraud.

Huh? Production started 06/06/16.

[Stormcloak]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Sorry for hijacking.
Is that you coming out of turn 11 down the front straight at the Glen? The pic in your sig I mean?

It is! Probably about 20 mph slower than I should be too

[arkentect]

Originally Posted by Snoman

There is no such thing as a 2017 Camaro, the dealer is a fraud.

lol I remember my first comment from my butt

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Stormcloak

It is! Probably about 20 mph slower than I should be too

I can never get a good run at the front straight either it seems like thats where it gets all bunched up and there are a bunch of point by's there. I'd love to carry the speed out of that turn and have a good WOT run to turn one.

[CamaroCracka]

I can tell you even my teenage daughter and her friends talk about how they don't like the looks of the Gen6 as much as the Gen5 and they wouldn't know the injectors from the valve stems. Maybe it's Transformers but for some reason the Gen5 is more popular with the younger folks.

I also agree the Gen6 lacked the hype of the introduction of the Gen5. Perhaps GM should stop producing Camaros occasionally to profit from the increased interest when they are reintroduced.

Based on what Mary Barra said about rental sales and how GM is pricing vehicles, it appears to me they are looking to increase margin even if it means fewer units sold. In the Camaro ads they compare the Camaro to a BMW 3 series, so perhaps they are looking to get more into the higher end market. The problem with that idea is they have 100 years of making Chevys behind them and I'm not sure luxury car buyers will ever see a Chevrolet as a luxury car.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Egon

I don't think GM is concerned one bit and here is why.

"DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors' second-quarter profit more than doubled to a post-bankruptcy record $2.87 billion on a strong performance in the U.S., where the company saw sales fall after it cut low-profit sales to rental car companies. It raised its earnings guidance for the year."

Full article here http://finance.yahoo.com/news/genera...113133995.html

GM has been focusing on making a profit from every sale over the past few years even if that means allowing market share to slip and it is paying off on their bottom line as seen by the headline above. The number of vehicles sold is not as important as selling each one at a profit. Because the Camaro is on the shared Alpha platform it is spreading the development cost over more than one vehicle line, and as a result I would bet that Ford has to sell 2 to 3 Mustangs to make as much profit as the sale of one Camaro. (just a wild ass guess from someone that doesn't know jack)

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

Sales 101: Market share is the top priority.
It's not to say that profit isn't important, but GM is definitely looking at volume. In the larger scheme of things, they're doing well, but they absolutely analyze under performing products & determine the best next step.

Like just about all of us, I don't have a chair at that the big mahogany table where GM execs make their marketing plans, so I don't know for sure. However, if I were to hazard a guess...

The first thing I think about when I see numbers like this, is that the reporters often do not look at the fact that GM took the Camaro out of fleet sales. So, not selling the car "en mass" to the rental companies, is certainly going to effect the number of units sold. So, why would GM do that, if they knew it would take away a lot of sales?

I think the profitability factor is on point. With the change to the Alpha platform, and the amount tech on this car, it can't be cheap to build. Starting price on an ATS is in the mid forty range, granted it's a little more luxury focused. The point is, however, there might be a pretty tight margin on the car from the get go.

This leads to the next point. Perhaps GM is looking at where they really make their money. It's not Camaro and Corvette, it's trucks, sedans, eco-boxes. It's cars like Camaro and Corvette that grab attention, but it's the family cars and trucks that pay the bills. By eliminating the Camaro from fleet sales, they get to lower the production number and use that money to make more and better "bread and butter" vehicles.

Pricing? Well, it really is a matter of perception I guess. When the Gen 6 was hitting dealers, I did a little comparison on the Chevy build site. At that time, I could still build and price a 2015 as well as a 2016. I found the price difference to be from $1,500 to $4,000 model for model. Base 1LT to base 1LT (V6) was 1,500 to 2,000. Base 1SS...$2,000 range and 2SS up to $4,000, '15 vs '16. Factor in that many of the things standard on the '16, were purchased options in '15, and it's almost a wash.

I don't know what people expected out of the gate. If the expectation was a market take over, like the 5th Gen produced, well, that's just unrealistic. The 5th Gen release was a whole new car after years of non existence. So the real question is, are the sales meeting GM's expectations? The answer is yes if the sales figures are keeping the line-up profitable. If not, then we will most likely see a change to the car, however, I think GM learned from 2003 to 2009, that they really need the Camaro name plate in the line up.