[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Hmmm thinking about that statement. The ZL1 needed an extra 124-hp, and 221-tq advantage to slighty beat the GT350R in H2H. No advantage there right. So when the GT500 comes in at 750-hp and smokes the ZL1 you will not be crying that it has a HP/TQ advantage right?

The GT500 should be faster in the quarter mile by more than a driver's race. And it should beat the ZL1 around a track. Those are things it "should" do. What I expect it will do is that it'll beat the ZL1 in a straight line. Again, it will have the advantage that the 18 GT had...people will specifically be trying to get the absolute best times possible.

In quarter mile testing same day same track same conditions same effort I think it'll be 10.8-11.0 GT500 to 11.2-11.4 ZL1. If the ZL1 comes in 2 seconds or less then I will consider the GT500 a failure.

Around a track I think the GT500 will stay close but the ZL1 will win. Ford will have plenty of excuses by then..."Well we didn't set out to build a specific track car. Our goal was to make a car that would be fast at the drag strip and capable around a track" or "Well the goal and heritage of the GT500 is to dominate at the drag strip. But we also felt that it should have some decent handling characteristics for some spirited canyon carving and track usage". So I already expect it to trail around a track. If it does beat the ZL1 then it very well should.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

One aspect no one seems to mention is aero. Aero is making a huge differnence and even a deciding factor in road course performance now. I was wondering before the relase of the GT500 that we saw, was how much aero and did Ford go with active aero. I haven't heard anything mentioned about active aero, so I don't think they went that route. But there does seem to be some significant aero on the CFTP version. Big splitter, dive planes, wide skirts, large wing (looks adjustable) on the back. These things make huge differences in lap times on a road course as they increase speed in the turns (and hinder top speed a bit).

SO, even though we can guess a bit about power, weight, etc., I think the biggest determining factor in whether this thing can beat the ZLE is aero. If it has enough aero, combined with more power than the ZLE, it may best the ZLE, or at least come close enough to be respectable.

Yes the wing on the carbon pack is adjustable

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The GT500 should be faster in the quarter mile by more than a driver's race. And it should beat the ZL1 around a track. Those are things it "should" do. What I expect it will do is that it'll beat the ZL1 in a straight line. Again, it will have the advantage that the 18 GT had...people will specifically be trying to get the absolute best times possible.

In quarter mile testing same day same track same conditions same effort I think it'll be 10.8-11.0 GT500 to 11.2-11.4 ZL1. If the ZL1 comes in 2 seconds or less then I will consider the GT500 a failure.

Around a track I think the GT500 will stay close but the ZL1 will win. Ford will have plenty of excuses by then..."Well we didn't set out to build a specific track car. Our goal was to make a car that would be fast at the drag strip and capable around a track" or "Well the goal and heritage of the GT500 is to dominate at the drag strip. But we also felt that it should have some decent handling characteristics for some spirited canyon carving and track usage". So I already expect it to trail around a track. If it does beat the ZL1 then it very well should.

The big thing to me will be when they do test the cars. Get the right match up.

GT500 vs ZL1

GT500 CFTP VS ZLE

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think we have had this conversation before but 6+ seconds on a road course is an eternity.

VIR the ZR1 did a 2:39.5 and teh ZLE did a 2:45.7. To say the ZLE wasn't left behind with a 6 second difference is a stretch if you ask me.

True, and I'm not by any stretch saying the ZR1 didn't dominate it. However, it has more horsepower, more torque, better aero, and a better geared transmission to boot.

Now, we come to the GT500, and it will probably weigh as much if not more than the ZLE...which is going to alter things...and throw in the better aero for the Camaro...and I think you have some serious items to look at... I mean, there are significantly more expensive cars with better tech and HP that cant touch it..

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Were you doubting his times when he was running record passes for GM products as well, or is the doubt only associated with Ford product reviews? Lets review this what do we know, 1. the GT is capable of sub 4-sec 0-60 times, 2. the GT is capable of trapping 117-120 mph in the 1/4, and a very fast shifting A10. With that data I am not sure why you would doubt his times. The data is there to back it up.

I on the other hand have much more confidence in his claimed times backed up by HR magazine, than I have in a private owners unverified claims. We have to look no further than this forum and any Mustang forum to find the folks who may not be telling the whole story.

First, I have doubted both sets of passes, simply because he somehow had the magic bullet that NO ONE has ever matched in stock times. He was almost .2 tenths faster than EVERYONE in a Mustang GT. Hell, even some people with a tune and an intake weren't getting his times..

I know the GT* is a very capable car, but you're trying to compare max efforts vs. basic howdy doodie magazine times and it's just not an apples to apples comparison.

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Hmmm thinking about that statement. The ZL1 needed an extra 124-hp, and 221-tq advantage to slighty beat the GT350R in H2H. No advantage there right. So when the GT500 comes in at 750-hp and smokes the ZL1 you will not be crying that it has a HP/TQ advantage right?

Track purpose car vs. luxury cruiser....and roughly a 200lb weight difference on top of it. Also, when the GT500 comes out, it wont be going against the ZL1....it will face the ZL1 1LE...

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The reason is that the 6th Gen SS came out and the first few testers all did low 12s against the GT's 12.9-13.1 and that was enough. It's kinda like if I race some kid and I'm 5 car lengths ahead of him the race is already won. I might just come off the gas because there is no need to keep going at that point. But when the 18 GT came out they had a score to settle and every effort was made to get the absolute best time possible. Hence there were full day track rentals with people running it, trying different tire pressures, recording the intake temps, recording the DA and temps at the track and what times they had the best conditions, head wind, how much gas is in the tank, what RPM to launch at and which modes to try, when to shift, etc. They put every emphasis into running the absolute best time possible in that car. And fine, the GT ran a faster time than the SS did. By 1-2 tenths. But if there had been that much attention to detail and that much effort put into the SS, then one has to wonder what it would have run. We will never know. But in all honesty I do not fault or discredit the GT. But it's kinda like if your kid beats the neighbor's kid in a casual friendly not serious foot race at a park bbq so your neighbor sends his kid to a special trainer for 3 years and loads him up with all kinds of race gear specifically to win and then he just edges your kid out at the next bbq, lol!! You'd have to wonder if given the same treatment, which one would be faster? I think it's obvious...

Pretty much.... I'd argue that these cars are virtually a drivers race 99% of the time at this point. The one true advantage I will however give the Mustang is that Ford made the bold choice to add the Drag Mode option. I feel like that is something Chevy missed the boat on...on all of the 6th gen cars period...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

True, and I'm not by any stretch saying the ZR1 didn't dominate it. However, it has more horsepower, more torque, better aero, and a better geared transmission to boot.

Now, we come to the GT500, and it will probably weigh as much if not more than the ZLE...which is going to alter things...and throw in the better aero for the Camaro...and I think you have some serious items to look at... I mean, there are significantly more expensive cars with better tech and HP that cant touch it..

I don't know enough about aero to say if one is better than the other. They seem pretty similar to me in that the GT500 CFTP adds a big ass wing, some aero bits up front etc etc just like the ZLE does. I think C&D said the GT500 track pack generates upwards of 450 pounds of down force. I don't recall seeing what the ZLE generates.

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

First, I have doubted both sets of passes, simply because he somehow had the magic bullet that NO ONE has ever matched in stock times. He was almost .2 tenths faster than EVERYONE in a Mustang GT. Hell, even some people with a tune and an intake weren't getting his times..

I know the GT* is a very capable car, but you're trying to compare max efforts vs. basic howdy doodie magazine times and it's just not an apples to apples comparison.




Track purpose car vs. luxury cruiser....and roughly a 200lb weight difference on top of it. Also, when the GT500 comes out, it wont be going against the ZL1....it will face the ZL1 1LE...

The only thing with the evans run is he laid out everything he did to get best time possible. short staging which some people will say can net you additional 2-3 tenths.

Why wouldn't the GT500 go against the ZL1?

Why does the regular GT500 with no aero bits have to go against the ZL1 track package?

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The big thing to me will be when they do test the cars. Get the right match up.

GT500 vs ZL1

GT500 CFTP VS A10 ZLE

fixed it

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

fixed it

Yes !

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I don't know enough about aero to say if one is better than the other. They seem pretty similar to me in that the GT500 CFTP adds a big ass wing, some aero bits up front etc etc just like the ZLE does. I think C&D said the GT500 track pack generates upwards of 450 pounds of down force. I don't recall seeing what the ZLE generates.

I'll believe it when I actually see it..... the 1LE has 300lbs of downforce, but it also gains more downforce the faster it goes.. We have no idea of what the GT500 will do, and with it's own stability issues at higher speeds, that could be something to pay attention to later..

Originally Posted by shaffe

The only thing with the evans run is he laid out everything he did to get best time possible. short staging which some people will say can net you additional 2-3 tenths.

And yet, no one's ever replicated his times bone stock....so you tell me how crazy that sounds..

Originally Posted by shaffe

Why wouldn't the GT500 go against the ZL1?

Why does the regular GT500 with no aero bits have to go against the ZL1 track package?

Aside from some aero and a wing, there is ZERO difference on the GT500. The 1LE is still fully loaded despite having a completely different suspension, aero, different wing, different tires/rims/etc..

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The big thing to me will be when they do test the cars. Get the right match up.

GT500 vs ZL1

GT500 CFTP VS ZLE

I don't think either of the GT500s will beat the ZL1 but we'll see.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I'll believe it when I actually see it..... the 1LE has 300lbs of downforce, but it also gains more downforce the faster it goes.. We have no idea of what the GT500 will do, and with it's own stability issues at higher speeds, that could be something to pay attention to later..




And yet, no one's ever replicated his times bone stock....so you tell me how crazy that sounds..




Aside from some aero and a wing, there is ZERO difference on the GT500. The 1LE is still fully loaded despite having a completely different suspension, aero, different wing, different tires/rims/etc..

According to the Ford Press release it generates 550 pounds of downforce at 180MPH

True no one else has done what evans has done.

The GT500 CFTP will also still be fully loaded like the ZLE. Also gains different wing front aero, carbon fiber wheels, stickier tires. It's literally the same concept as the 1LE package. Add aerodynamics, sticky rubber, wider wheels. 1LE changes the suspension. CFTP goes carbon fiber wheels and deletes rear seats.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I don't think either of the GT500s will beat the ZL1 but we'll see.

It will be interesting to see when it finally happens lol

[Ethanolic]

GT500:

$70-72.5k starting MSRP

Equal to or quicker than a Redeye on the strip in reviews.
Faster lap times than the ZL1
Slower lap times than ZLE

[NW-99SS]

If the GT500 CFTP does beat the ZLE...will the cost be worth it?

I highly doubt it will best the ZLE, except for a very optimized scenario (re: GT* vs SS), in which we will see a publish lap time better than the ZLE, but on a different day, temp, driver, conditions etc (re: PP2 vs 1LE - side note, the 1LE has never been towed off the track like the PP2 had to be after 3 laps).

This is mostly a curiosity post since we don't know any GT500 spec yet, and we also don't know how much the A10 will improve the ZLE's times. Given the Alpha handling abilities vs the S550, even in CFTP with a massive premium (+ crazy Ford dealer ADM like on the 350 R's), I highly doubt the GT500 will be worth the price of admission.

I will be entertained by the posts similar to the PP2 vs 1LE (I declare neither a winner until tested together).