11-12-2023, 07:58 PM | #1331 |
2017 HyperBlue 2SS
|
Would love to see the income level that feeds these graphs.
__________________
]
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30755 2010 IBM 2LT RS......Traded for..... 2012 IBM 2SS RS......Traded for..... 2017 HBM 2SS |
11-12-2023, 08:10 PM | #1332 |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
|
Not sure which income levels you are talking about. The income level of the people producing the charts or the income levels of the people buying the EVs?
The second part was not part of the data but it probably exists somewhere. What I can say is, if the issue is affordability of EVs vs ICE vehicles, here’s what I found when I recently bought a Model Y. Price of Model Y: $52k (MSRP of my Camaro when I bought it in 2017 - $55.2k, similarly equipped today would be $60,485) Prices of similarly equipped ICE vehicles that I might have considered buying instead of the Model Y:
I feel like I made a good choice. If the thought is that EVs are unaffordable, then Buick Enclave, Chevy Traverse and Tahoe are also unaffordable. Yet they all sell very well.
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | Last edited by Martinjlm; 11-12-2023 at 08:27 PM. |
11-12-2023, 08:23 PM | #1333 |
2017 HyperBlue 2SS
|
Purchasing. I’m guessing upper % of the tax bracket.
__________________
]
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30755 2010 IBM 2LT RS......Traded for..... 2012 IBM 2SS RS......Traded for..... 2017 HBM 2SS |
11-12-2023, 08:53 PM | #1334 |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
|
That would have been true a few years ago when EVs tended to be luxury models fully optioned. Less now that there are many more mainstream models, with a lot more mainstream models coming in 2024-25 and availability in multiple trim levels. Tesla Model Y starts at $39k for a single motor RWD model. The volume weighted average price of new vehicles sold in the US in 2023 is about $48k. So from an accessibility standpoint the Model Y is accessible, maybe more accessible than the average new car sold in the US. And it qualifies for $7,500 in incentives for people who are not in the upper % of tax brackets. The Model Y also happens to be the 4th best selling vehicle in the US and best selling in the world. Model 3 (priced lower than Model Y) is # 10 in the US.
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
11-13-2023, 04:11 AM | #1335 | |
Drives: 2015 Z28 Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 153
|
Quote:
@admin can you sticky this data? Theres a cyclical thing going on here where posters seem to accept that EV sales and takeup are increasing and then a New Player gets involved and the same arguments get parrotted again. |
|
11-13-2023, 07:33 AM | #1336 | |
Drives: 2000 WS6 Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AZ
Posts: 497
|
Quote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookec...h=3480fdda473c |
|
11-13-2023, 08:33 AM | #1337 |
Drives: People crazy with my sexiness Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 805
|
Everyone raving about Tesla brings me back to something Bob Lutz once said:
"Tesla knows how to make ELECTRIC cars. GM, Ford, Chrysler, and all the European and Japanese companies all know how to make CARS." They've all been doing it for 75+ years, so they have the basics of mass production of a complicated product down to a science. They have tight collaboration with suppliers. They have the timing for supply delivery down to the second. They have efficiencies on a scale Tesla and Elon Musk have yet to incorporate into their operational structure. It is inevitable that one of the big car companies will eventually either purchase Tesla, or that Tesla will go out of business and their proprietary intellectual property will be plucked off the carcass by one or more of the established automakers
__________________
Purchase order submitted on 6/23/23
Received and purchased 9/8/2023 2024 2SS 6MT coupe Sharkskin/Light gray Moonroof/Navi/NPP/Mag Ride/Red Brake Calipers Gray painted split spoke wheels Illuminated footwells/illuminated bowtie |
11-13-2023, 09:17 AM | #1338 | |
Drives: 2000 WS6 Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AZ
Posts: 497
|
Quote:
https://jalopnik.com/if-you-bought-a...uch-1851011677 |
|
11-13-2023, 11:23 AM | #1339 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
|
Quote:
For people who charge their vehicles at home, fast charging will only be occasional.
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
|
11-13-2023, 11:31 AM | #1340 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
|
Quote:
Ford’s market cap is $39B Stellantis’ market cap is $58B. Tesla’s market cap is $635B. So who’s likely to buy whom?
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
|
11-13-2023, 11:40 AM | #1341 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
|
Quote:
Now you can replace that with “Tesla makes so much money on every car they sell that they can afford to drop the prize on their top models by $40,000 and still make a profit on every one of them.” Sounds like they learned how to build cars at a really efficient scale, reducing their costs to the point that they can price them as aggressively as they choose to. The fact that they made such rapid price reductions sucks for the buyers who bought just before the reductions. Last week I bought a Tesla Model Y Long Range with options for $52k. Last year a similar spec vehicle cost those buyers $68,000. Sucks for them, rocks for me. If they drop it another $5k in the near future I’d have no issue with it. When I bought it it was worth (to me) more than what I paid for it. If they raise the prices in the near future I’ll be relieved that I got in when I did.
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
|
11-13-2023, 11:48 AM | #1342 | |
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 14,463
|
Quote:
Tesla lowering their price speaks volumes as to the over priced EVs currently for sale. No matter if EVs match or beat ICE cars in the low price range, the truth is they should be much, much lower even still and thus more "affordable". |
|
11-13-2023, 12:03 PM | #1343 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
|
'
Quote:
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
|
11-13-2023, 12:47 PM | #1344 | |
Drives: Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Middle Park East, Liberty City
Posts: 279
|
Quote:
Obviously you are being paid dude. You are in the industry and are the last person I would trust. You be the guinea pig. You let those toxic fumes leaching from the battery infiltrate you and your family and get back to us in 5 or 10 years and let us know how it worked out. So much wrong with mass EVS it lacks common sense. |
|
|
|