SS 1LE vs BMW M2, in new Road & Track... - Page 2

50MileSmile · 10-31-2018, 09:28 PM

I had a 2002. Loved it.

I had an E36 M3. Loved it.

I had an M2 LCI with the DCT. Hated it, traded it in on a 1SS 1LE and a big check after 9 boring, squeaky, soulless months. Love the 1LE; it’s one of the greatest enthusiast values ever produced. It’s too bad the world doesn’t know it.

nicktechla · 10-31-2018, 09:55 PM

M2 is a blast. I rented one for a couple days in Germany a few months back

50MileSmile · 10-31-2018, 10:00 PM

That’s the way to experience an M2 - a one-night stand or even a weekend. But when you wake up Monday morning, you’d better go home alone, or you’ll get your heart broken.

crankaholic · 10-31-2018, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

I had a 2002. Loved it.

I had an E36 M3. Loved it.

I had an M2 LCI with the DCT. Hated it, traded it in on a 1SS 1LE and a big check after 9 boring, squeaky, soulless months. Love the 1LE; it’s one of the greatest enthusiast values ever produced. It’s too bad the world doesn’t know it.

Watch any "reviewer" on youtube... they all dismiss the Camaro for bad visibility and say it's not any more engaging than the M cars (2 or 4). I'm not sure why, everyone I know who actual drove a 6th gen loves it. I try not to watch most of those people (I watch Doug because he's pretty funny IMHO) because I know they have absolutely 0 credentials and are very bias against certain cars (or for certain brands). I trust Randy Pobst when he reviews things for MT, he loves the new Camaros

nicktechla · 10-31-2018, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankaholic

Watch any "reviewer" on youtube... they all dismiss the Camaro for bad visibility and say it's not any more engaging than the M cars (2 or 4). I'm not sure why, everyone I know who actual drove a 6th gen loves it. I try not to watch most of those people (I watch Doug because he's pretty funny IMHO) because I know they have absolutely 0 credentials and are very bias against certain cars (or for certain brands). I trust Randy Pobst when he reviews things for MT, he loves the new Camaros

biased against certain cars... I'd say this forum is one of them

I love my Camaros, but people on this forum bash everything else no matter what. I had a Mustang and a Camaro, love both. But on the Mustang6g forum, Camaros suck, on the camaro6 forum, Mustangs suck

50MileSmile · 10-31-2018, 10:24 PM

Bias? Of course, but it goes both ways. I spent a lot of time on the Mustang6 forum a couple of years ago (and still have one of the longest-active threads there), and I can confirm for you that GT350s suck.

Some of us have no brand loyalty and go after the best car at the moment.

And for the record, whomever at GM Design approved the absolutely absurd lack of rear visibility in the Gen. 6 Camaro should be sentenced to designing mudflaps for 4-cylinder Mustangs.

the_swiSS · 11-01-2018, 03:53 AM

I cross-shopped the M2, M4, RS3 and ultimately went for a Camaro. One night while browsing cars online, I fell in love with it. Went a test drove the 6th gen and signed the papers that day.

So far, no regrets. Sure, an RS3 would have been more practical with it's AWD and an M2 would have been more inconspicuos here (They're dime a dozen). Dynamically, I don't think I've ever experienced a car more competent and outright fast than the SS. My only gripe is that the gearing is way too long for our roads. Quarter throttle off the line in 1st and I'm already at the speed limit, there's just nowhere to rev it out here. I feel a Euro-roadtrip coming up next spring

Price was also a factor, the sheer value proposition of the Camaro SS here is just unbeatable. 53k for a loaded car with MRC, NPP and the Recaro seats vs at least 75k for an M2. An RS3 sedan with my options comes out to over 80k! A base M4 (cloth, non-ZCP) starts at 93k!!

samurai · 11-01-2018, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankaholic

Watch any "reviewer" on youtube... they all dismiss the Camaro for bad visibility

But somehow the same guys have no problem if a Corvette, GT86/BRZ, Nissan GTR, 370Z, Audi TT, Porsche Cayman, etc. has the same bad visibility. If you want a sleek looking 2-door coupe with a high beltline, you can't get great visibility. I wouldn't want to park any of these cars without rear parking sensors or a rear view camera.

Of course a 4 door sedan has better visibility and has more trunkspace. But if you look at other coupe sportscars for the money, the Camaro has the similiar visibility, but the best performance and good rear- and trunkspace.

The only thing I have to admit is that the Mustang has a bit better visibility and space. But it's not like the Mustang is great in that terms, just a bit better than the Camaro.

ac-427 · 11-01-2018, 06:10 AM

I've had three late model Camaros, including a 45th Anniversary, a Z28, and my current 2018 SS Redline Vert. Between the center mirror, the electrically adjustable side mirrors and back-up cameras, I don't understand why anyone has problems with rear vision on these cars. Moreover, my 2018 has blind spot warning lights in the side mirrors making things even safer during maneuvers in traffic or parking lots. My guess is the elite European car loving pundits just need something to complain about when they are confronted with our great 6th gen Camaros. Plus the looks of our cars are amazing!

JT58 · 11-01-2018, 07:09 AM

I don't like BMW's at all. And I had a 128I, which my wife at the time wanted. I got stuck with it in the divorce and immediately dumped it. It was not a bad driving or performing car but just not for me. Ridiculous maintenance costs. I'll say it again- ridiculous maintenance costs. For instance- just a battery- $800-$1000. And the dealer must tweak it to the car. Brakes- better budget at least 2K for the front and another 2K for the back.

Camaro 1LE wins all day and night over the BMW!

crankaholic · 11-01-2018, 10:57 AM

I mean yeah, the greenhouse is smaller than in a lot of cars (comparable to other extreme looking sports/super cars, including the 370z)... but you can still actually see everything on the road. I've never once had an issue out on the highway or in the city (NYC and Philly). Parking requires you to think ahead a bit, since the bad visibility affects stuff within a couple of feet from the car. I don't think I'd pay over $20k more just to have a few extra inches of glass, and get a worse car. It's not like the other modern cars are comparable to a BMW 2002 in terms of visibility or something like that.

I'm not a fanboy either, I was going to buy the GT350... until every Ford dealer in a 300 mile radius didn't want to let go of them for anything less than $20k over sticker. It's a really cool car, but not $75k cool. Just like I don't think an M4 is an $80k car, even though a BMW is actually put together better than the Mustang and Camaro... anyone who's taken apart a BMW knows their attention to detail, it's really cool. I just don't think it really matters. I've also had to replace my plastic valve cover (WTF guys) because a vacuum attachment nipple broke... they were like "well it's hardened plastic, we don't know why it broke"... bish please, who had the bright idea of creating a plastic engine component that will experience A LOT of drastic heat cycles!!!

Hops · 11-01-2018, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT58

I don't like BMW's at all. And I had a 128I, which my wife at the time wanted. I got stuck with it in the divorce and immediately dumped it. It was not a bad driving or performing car but just not for me. Ridiculous maintenance costs. I'll say it again- ridiculous maintenance costs. For instance- just a battery- $800-$1000. And the dealer must tweak it to the car. Brakes- better budget at least 2K for the front and another 2K for the back.

Camaro 1LE wins all day and night over the BMW!

Wow, those are crazy dealer prices...

I have a 128i, and it has really been one of the best cars i've ever owned. Easy to DIY, lot's a resources since it's so close to the e90. I've kept it out of the shop for 8+years and 95k miles. I price the local dealer repairs/maintenance to make myself feel good about DIY, and their prices ($250 battery, $1500 brakes all around) are nothing like yours!

Now the M2 with special m parts it going to be expensive even if you DIY. I can buy 4 rotors for the 128i for the price of ONE M2/M3 rotor!

crankaholic · 11-01-2018, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hops

Now the M2 with special m parts it going to be expensive even if you DIY. I can buy 4 rotors for the 128i for the price of ONE M2/M3 rotor!

To be fair a set of rotors for the 1LE won't be cheap either... the 135i, M2 and 1LE have pretty big rotors and 6 piston calipers. Those will never be cheap, if you want parts that will perform as well as stock or better. Regular maintenance items aren't any more or less expensive on the M cars, with the exception of DCT fluid changes... those gearboxes take unicorn tears or something. Random repairs, well that's another story

Hops · 11-01-2018, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankaholic

To be fair a set of rotors for the 1LE won't be cheap either... the 135i, M2 and 1LE have pretty big rotors and 6 piston calipers. Those will never be cheap, if you want parts that will perform as well as stock or better. Regular maintenance items aren't any more or less expensive on the M cars, with the exception of DCT fluid changes... those gearboxes take unicorn tears or something. Random repairs, well that's another story

I didn't find that to be true from fcpeuro and esctuning. 135i/335i zimmerman rotors are cheap... individually $60 rear $70 front. For an m-car, the low volume means no non-OE, so M2 rotors are ~$290 a piece. Searched tirerack for 1ss 1le rotors and found nothing but 1lz rotors were like $150 a piece, is that right?

10-31-2018, 09:55 PM	#16
nicktechla Drives: 2012 Porsche 911 Turbo S Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,776	M2 is a blast. I rented one for a couple days in Germany a few months back __________________ IG: 2fast2nick -- Current -- 2012 Porsche Turbo S - PDK - Basalt Black Metallic -- Past -- 2017 Camaro ZL1 Coupe - Red Hot - A10, PDR - HRE P101 2015 Mustang GT PP - Whipple Supercharger

11-01-2018, 03:53 AM	#21
the_swiSS Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS (EU) Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Zurich, Switzerland Posts: 113	I cross-shopped the M2, M4, RS3 and ultimately went for a Camaro. One night while browsing cars online, I fell in love with it. Went a test drove the 6th gen and signed the papers that day. So far, no regrets. Sure, an RS3 would have been more practical with it's AWD and an M2 would have been more inconspicuos here (They're dime a dozen). Dynamically, I don't think I've ever experienced a car more competent and outright fast than the SS. My only gripe is that the gearing is way too long for our roads. Quarter throttle off the line in 1st and I'm already at the speed limit, there's just nowhere to rev it out here. I feel a Euro-roadtrip coming up next spring Price was also a factor, the sheer value proposition of the Camaro SS here is just unbeatable. 53k for a loaded car with MRC, NPP and the Recaro seats vs at least 75k for an M2. An RS3 sedan with my options comes out to over 80k! A base M4 (cloth, non-ZCP) starts at 93k!! __________________ 2018 EU 2SS - 6MT - Black GBA - Recaro seats - NPP - MRC Black Bowties - GM Fuel Door - Black Camaro Fender Logo - K&N Air Filter - Katech ported TB - GM Dark Tail Lights - GM ZL1 1LE 3rd Brake Light - HRE FF04 - Eibach Springs

11-01-2018, 06:10 AM	#23
ac-427 Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS Redline Convertible Join Date: May 2016 Location: DFW Posts: 168	I've had three late model Camaros, including a 45th Anniversary, a Z28, and my current 2018 SS Redline Vert. Between the center mirror, the electrically adjustable side mirrors and back-up cameras, I don't understand why anyone has problems with rear vision on these cars. Moreover, my 2018 has blind spot warning lights in the side mirrors making things even safer during maneuvers in traffic or parking lots. My guess is the elite European car loving pundits just need something to complain about when they are confronted with our great 6th gen Camaros. Plus the looks of our cars are amazing! Attached Images __________________ 2019 Buick TourX 2017 Colorado Redline 1966 Ford Mustang Pro Touring

11-01-2018, 07:09 AM	#24
JT58 Drives: Former 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 760	I don't like BMW's at all. And I had a 128I, which my wife at the time wanted. I got stuck with it in the divorce and immediately dumped it. It was not a bad driving or performing car but just not for me. Ridiculous maintenance costs. I'll say it again- ridiculous maintenance costs. For instance- just a battery- $800-$1000. And the dealer must tweak it to the car. Brakes- better budget at least 2K for the front and another 2K for the back. Camaro 1LE wins all day and night over the BMW! __________________ 2006 C6 Corvette Manual, 2019 Silverado, 1997 Jeep Wrangler

11-01-2018, 10:57 AM	#25
crankaholic Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 771	I mean yeah, the greenhouse is smaller than in a lot of cars (comparable to other extreme looking sports/super cars, including the 370z)... but you can still actually see everything on the road. I've never once had an issue out on the highway or in the city (NYC and Philly). Parking requires you to think ahead a bit, since the bad visibility affects stuff within a couple of feet from the car. I don't think I'd pay over $20k more just to have a few extra inches of glass, and get a worse car. It's not like the other modern cars are comparable to a BMW 2002 in terms of visibility or something like that. I'm not a fanboy either, I was going to buy the GT350... until every Ford dealer in a 300 mile radius didn't want to let go of them for anything less than $20k over sticker. It's a really cool car, but not $75k cool. Just like I don't think an M4 is an $80k car, even though a BMW is actually put together better than the Mustang and Camaro... anyone who's taken apart a BMW knows their attention to detail, it's really cool. I just don't think it really matters. I've also had to replace my plastic valve cover (WTF guys) because a vacuum attachment nipple broke... they were like "well it's hardened plastic, we don't know why it broke"... bish please, who had the bright idea of creating a plastic engine component that will experience A LOT of drastic heat cycles!!! __________________

10-31-2018, 09:28 PM	#15
50MileSmile Drives: 2023 2SS, 2018 1SS 1LE, 1993 Z/28 Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Midwest Posts: 819	I had a 2002. Loved it. I had an E36 M3. Loved it. I had an M2 LCI with the DCT. Hated it, traded it in on a 1SS 1LE and a big check after 9 boring, squeaky, soulless months. Love the 1LE; it’s one of the greatest enthusiast values ever produced. It’s too bad the world doesn’t know it.

10-31-2018, 10:00 PM	#17
50MileSmile Drives: 2023 2SS, 2018 1SS 1LE, 1993 Z/28 Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Midwest Posts: 819	That’s the way to experience an M2 - a one-night stand or even a weekend. But when you wake up Monday morning, you’d better go home alone, or you’ll get your heart broken.

10-31-2018, 10:24 PM	#20
50MileSmile Drives: 2023 2SS, 2018 1SS 1LE, 1993 Z/28 Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Midwest Posts: 819	Bias? Of course, but it goes both ways. I spent a lot of time on the Mustang6 forum a couple of years ago (and still have one of the longest-active threads there), and I can confirm for you that GT350s suck. Some of us have no brand loyalty and go after the best car at the moment. And for the record, whomever at GM Design approved the absolutely absurd lack of rear visibility in the Gen. 6 Camaro should be sentenced to designing mudflaps for 4-cylinder Mustangs.

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