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Old 01-17-2018, 01:13 PM   #141
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Count me in, this topic gets my vote until addressed by AL and the Team.
Thanks for the PM reminder Travis, appreciate your time and effort here.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:52 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Boost or bust View Post
Hmmm...I think we’d need find out what tuners out there know how to get around torque management. Anyone know a tuner who can handle this? While I would love to sit and wait for GM to create a fix, I would not hold our collective breaths. Not gonna happen and I do (respectfully) challenge Al to prove me wrong. Love everything about the car except this issue.
So far i've had 2 tuners mention to me that they "figured it out"

One said they did and literally dodged my messages on FB.

Another mentioned that "it isn't about tweaking the torque management table, it's about when you bring the torque in"

I'm not certain what to believe considering as far as I know even the great chevy wizard of the west, cunningham, hasn't found a way around this.


Man I should have done some reading before buying this platform for high hp lol. Seems like this was known 2 years ago when I got mine -_-. Would have done all motor with a 150 shot had I known the issues arise as you climb in torque. Good times.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:36 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost or bust View Post
Hmmm...I think we’d need find out what tuners out there know how to get around torque management. Anyone know a tuner who can handle this? While I would love to sit and wait for GM to create a fix, I would not hold our collective breaths. Not gonna happen and I do (respectfully) challenge Al to prove me wrong. Love everything about the car except this issue.
Coming from a Challenger Hellcat, I was leaning more towards the Grand Sport as I had a C7 before...
But, then, the ZL1 seems to be so well engineered that it was hard to pass on it.

Unfortunately, I didn't know about this issue... Now that I know and I have experienced it, I can say that I regret both, trading the Hellcat (that I could consistently get 11.5s on the street with street tires) and/or not going for the Grand Sport!

Well, I hope the Camaro development team will prove me wrong, too!
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:48 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by UserNameNotFound View Post
Coming from a Challenger Hellcat, I was leaning more towards the Grand Sport as I had a C7 before...
But, then, the ZL1 seems to be so well engineered that it was hard to pass on it.

Unfortunately, I didn't know about this issue... Now that I know and I have experienced it, I can say that I regret both, trading the Hellcat (that I could consistently get 11.5s on the street with street tires) and/or not going for the Grand Sport!

Well, I hope the Camaro development team will prove me wrong, too!
Effing hell, that would frustrate the life out of me... I think anyone who got a manual ZL1/SS(and boosted it for more power) has been robbed of their chance at straight line dead stop performance. It's been too long without even a peep for either Chevy or HP Tuners for that matter.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:44 PM   #145
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Let's keep the support coming! If you haven't voted, please vote!

So far we're looking pretty good, but there's a lot of people who have posted on this thread who haven't yet voted.

I'm sure Al and his team watch the polls, and I want them to see the massive amount of interest this question really has. We all stand to benefit from a detailed explanation of launch control, even those who aren't having issues.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518611
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:08 AM   #146
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I think it was done intentionally. Not 100%, but I think partly it was. Partly to protect parts, partly bc they focused on the a10 and they half-assed the tuning, and partly bc the a10 HAD to be better than not only the m6, but the a8 that I’m sure it’ll eventually phase out.

How can an m6 ss run within .2 of an a8 but m6 zl1’s can’t get within half a second of the a10? It’s the same way with hellcats. A8’s avg 10.8 and I saw (and raced) an m6 this past weekend with only dr’s running 11.0’s
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:48 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleL View Post
...
How can an m6 ss run within .2 of an a8 but m6 zl1’s can’t get within half a second of the a10? It’s the same way with hellcats. A8’s avg 10.8 and I saw (and raced) an m6 this past weekend with only dr’s running 11.0’s
I've been trying to make this same point. It's so obvious that there's a problem with the M6 ZL1 when you look at it that way.

From my experience the delta between the A10 and M6 is closer to a full second. Of course there are folks who want to believe the A10 is just "that good", but that's a load of crap. The M6 pretty much matches the A10 on the road course and doesn't overheat while doing it. The difference is almost entirely in the launch. Automatics will obviously launch better, but the M6 should only be about 3-4 tenths behind.
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:15 PM   #148
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I've been trying to make this same point. It's so obvious that there's a problem with the M6 ZL1 when you look at it that way.

From my experience the delta between the A10 and M6 is closer to a full second. Of course there are folks who want to believe the A10 is just "that good", but that's a load of crap. The M6 pretty much matches the A10 on the road course and doesn't overheat while doing it. The difference is almost entirely in the launch. Automatics will obviously launch better, but the M6 should only be about 3-4 tenths behind.
Yep, but we’ll have to wait and see if it truly is that much better. If it is, and they add it to the ss cars, then they should have no problem running 11.3-11.5 in the 1/4 mile with no other changes. I doubt that’ll happen.

I think one of the only logical reasons for them making launching interference so aggressive is bc you can launch the m6 at 4K rpms, as opposed to what, 2500 on the Auto? That’s gotta be at least launching with 600 lb ft of tq. So maybe the drivetrain parts aren’t as good as the 5th gen zl1’s and they had to make it more aggresssive to preserve the parts. It didn’t seem as though the 5th gens fell down that hard using launch control, it would just cut power but still keep the nose up and not drop rpms as much.

Even if they did purposely hold it back some, they’d be insane to admit it.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:19 AM   #149
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Just to open up a slightly different train of thought, I wonder if the calibration is specifically aimed at minimizing or eliminating "wheel hop" with the mu-slip curve for the OE tires - especially the "back side" (past the peak) - very much in mind.

I wouldn't expect the answer to include any specific numbers, so peoples' experiences with tires other than OE or on wet pavement might be able to shed a little light here.

Let's just say a very loosely related topic recently resurrected elsewhere prompted this.


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Old 01-21-2018, 05:11 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleL View Post
I think it was done intentionally. Not 100%, but I think partly it was. Partly to protect parts, partly bc
I disagree because an A10 ran into the 9's with a STOCK A10 and drivetrain.

So the ZL1'ws drivetrain package has been well over-proven.

I'd look at the prior "AW-Chit" history with the M-Camaros and M-Corvettes to tell you of GM's lack of motivation in fixing this most important issue of Bogging @ Launch.
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:59 PM   #151
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I disagree because an A10 ran into the 9's with a STOCK A10 and drivetrain.

So the ZL1'ws drivetrain package has been well over-proven.
Well proven when the power delivery does not include harsh impact loading, perhaps.

Very suddenly applied loads typically behave like the forces were significantly higher, possibly double what they'd be absent the suddenness. The fatigue effects increase even faster than that (figure at least another 8x on top of that impact factor but probably higher). The MT has no torque converter to mitigate this impact loading by "slipping".


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Old 01-22-2018, 01:07 PM   #152
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If momentum is any indication, the launching question likely won't be selected without several more votes.

If you haven't voted, please vote!

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518611
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:16 PM   #153
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Vote +1....though i’ve never used the launch control yet!
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:11 PM   #154
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vote plus one.
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