[Snoman]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah finding an R at MSRP will be very tough this year. I do remember that there was also very high markups on the Z when it was first released as well. So let's not bring in rebates or mark ups right now.

Sure let's break it down shall we.

Responses in red.

Yes, if you just look strictly at MSRP these cars are pretty equivalent. Except that You can get creature comforts in the 350R that you can not get in the Z/28 for 10K less or if you just wanted the 5.2 you can get a base 350 or track pack 350 or a tech pack 350. For those that just wanted a LS7 Camaro, you had to go full blown Z/28.

Agreed (prior post) - GM ergonomics suck balls and if we begin comparing engine reliability, Ford wins over the questionable LS7 issues.


The cars were driven by the same driver same day. Not to mention that Randy is a pretty damn good driver. Yeah I am sure the average joe driving both cars might be able to get one faster than the other, but this test had a professional driver drive both cars. Can't really say a different driver here would make the Z faster.

Too close to call either way, the Z has superior brakes and the R has wider tires. Hence the driver mod comment and I've seen a Z driven harder than this video. We are going to see dozens more of these from all sides of the journalism field and I expect varying results going both ways.

For those that didn't watch the entire video, the Z/28 walked away leading the majority of the video,

Actually if you watch the video, you will see the R is ahead most of the way. Carried more speed into the turns, and accelerated out of the corners faster(which was a point that Randy made the the R put the power down better) The Z was right there slightly, and on the last turn the R really pulled ahead. Ask some of these guys that have actually raced on a road course. Over a second on a road course is huge.

the only reason the 350 won was the "drag race at the end".

Again false, while I am sure it had a little bit of influence, MT knows that both of these cars are track cars, but since its Mustang and Camaro they had to drag race. And also that entire segment of the video, looks to me as if it was done to be comedic, with the mullet hair on the Camaro driver

My statement was based on the overall review at 22:00, "I'm this close to crowning a victor, but these are muscle cars and the only way Ford is winning overall is if it wins the drag race...". Misquoted for sure.


The 2015 pro racing season and Stevenson motorsports already proved the Z/28 is the best track car available. Once price becomes a factor, Ford fails miserably at $40k+ more and once you take a step back and realize this is a 6th gen vs. 5th gen.....just...no words. I have no doubt GM will continue to dominate for several years to come.

Who cares about pro racing season? Unless they are taking the cars out of the show room and racing them as is I don't care.

Yes this old gen vs new gen that debate has been beat to death. And as impressive as the 6th Gen SS is, I have no doubts that GM will build something to one up the 350R and do it with ease.

The pro racing circuit has a tendency to equalize things so we see a more realistic comparison between different manufacturers. Both motors were sandbagged/chocked off and the Z lost its brakes, I am not up to par with what else was done to the R. At the end of the season between the 5 cars, I believe it was Z, Z, R, Z, R ? I could look it up and there are a ton of valid arguments over 1/2 second here, blew some tire there but from a high level this simply means the cars are basically twins with different creature comforts.

Originally Posted by trademaster

40k+ more? You're comparing Z/28 selling for way below MSRP to GT350R selling for way above MSRP? That's called supply and demand. The MSRP for the GT350R is almost $10,000 less than the MSRP of the Z/28. If the 350R is selling for $40k more then that is clearly not Ford, "fail[ing] miserably"

Yea, not quite sure what world you live in but real dollars and cost of items are important to most people that breathe air. In Ford's defense (and yours), at the manufacture level the GT350R is the clear winner on paper coming in $10k below MSRP, except its not wearing $25k in shoes and socks.

Unfortunately, the majority of us common folk are forced to pay street/market value. I would spend $35-40k in savings elsewhere and drive a Z all day long and twice on Sundays. GM proved the $75k price point for a mass produced "Camaro" was unsustainable and only time will prove if Ford can sustain it or if their dealers will start eating the same losses.

Two 100% identical televisions except for the color of the remote. You choose to pay $9,000 for the white one and I'll pay $6,000 for the green one? Sounds logical to me, but sell me the white one for $5k if it's available.