Chevrolet Corvette Stingray C7 Forum - Lingenfelter: New LT1 Engine a Challenge for Tuners

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Lingenfelter: New LT1 Engine a Challenge for Tuners

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http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/..._r-475x550.jpg

General Motors’ powertrain engineers have undoubtedly demonstrated with the LS family of V8 engines that pushrods still have a place in the 21st century. As successful and popular as the LS has been, I don’t think it’s much of stretch to assume that the new LT1 V8 in the all new seventh generation Corvette will eventually replace the LS engine in its various permutations and applications. The LT1, still a cam in block engine, and still with Ed Cole’s 4.40 inch bore centers, adds direct injection to the Small Block Chevy heritage. The LS family has also been popular as crate motors, used by customizers and high performance enthusiasts as well as with a small industry of companies that specialize in high performance GM products. While you can buy a LS from General Motors with up to 638 horsepower, if that just doesn’t satisfy your need for speed, companies like Callaway, Lingenfelter and Hennessey have shown that the LS engine’s basic architecture is capable of putting out almost twice that power. After talking with Ken Lingenfelter about the new Corvette, I wonder, though, just how tuner-friendly the new LT1 will be.

I ran into Lingenfelter in front of the Classic Car Club of America’s display at the Chicago Auto Show. Ken’s a noted collector of Corvettes and other performance cars who took over Lingenfelter Performance Engineering when his cousin, John, who started LPE, was killed in a car wreck. Ken’s a car guy’s car guy and I see him at tons of car events around the Detroit area, as an exhibitor, as a vendor and as an attendee. A while back he graciously gave me access to shoot 3D photos and video of his collection. He was in Chicago to show some LPE massaged cars, including a very nicely done ’67ish StingRay body on a C6 Corvette chassis with Lingenfelter power, built by Karls Kustom Corvette .

When I asked Lingenfelter if LPE has had a chance to work on the LT1 yet, he told me that GM’s been rather close to the vest with the new engine. He also said since the LT1 is the first time that GM has used direct injection in their V8 engine family, there’s going to be a learning curve for the tuners. One thing he said, though, may not bode well for 1,000+ HP LTs. Lingenfelter said that engines are designed with performance limits. Think of the way that Formula One used to use “hand grenade” qualifying engines, motors built to make crazy power but not last longer than a few laps. According to Lingenfelter, the production versions of the LS engine still leave a lot of room for performance improvement, they’re nowhere near the limits of the performance envelope. From what he’s learned about the new LT1, Lingenfelter fears that the motor, which has the highest specific output of any GM engine ever, 450 HP and 450 lb-ft of torque from 6.2 liters of displacement, may be closer to the limits of its performance envelope in production form than the LS. No doubt the LT1′s architecture can handle the 600 or 700 HP that the eventual ZR1 edition of the C7 will have, but 700 HP is commonplace in the LS tuning world and Lingenfelter is concerned that they may not be able to wring much more than that out of the new Corvette engine.

via http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...ge-for-tuners/

Well pee in my corn flakes.

Id be sastified with 550-600 in a car this light.

We will see.

How "tunable" is the BoschBox-equipped DI 3.6 V6, after how many years?

That's what's ahead for the Gen-5 SBC...

Pure conjecture. People said the same thing about LS6, LS7. I'm sure people worried when Gen III debuted and then again when Gen IV and AFM came out. Remember when OBDII was the end of performance upgrades?

LPE has tuned a "few" cars.

I wouldn't call it conjecture but foresight.

Just my opinion though.

I'll wait for testing and real world numbers. But honestly, for me? I'm sure the base version will be all the power I'll ever be able to use on the street and way more :thumb: Never been much of a bench racer - if a GTR can hit 60 in 3.2 seconds versus my 3.9 seconds? Woohoo - damn, that's going to impress the chicks down at the Dairy Queen huh? :second:

Well, hopefully when my car gets to Lingy, that have it all perfected. :D

I would tend to agree with LPE on this one. The compression ratio on the LT1 is 11 to 1, if the block can handle it it will have to be stroked in order to add boost.
For all the guys who think stock is more power than they will ever need.....really?
I have a LPE Camaro with 706 horses at the rear wheels....I still want more. Windy also has a LPE beast of a car. I guess if you want a cool daily driver its just fine. However if you want to be able cruise and kick butt on the track or strip....a visit to Lingenfelter is just what the doctor ordered.

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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN (Post 7607)

How "tunable" is the BoschBox-equipped DI 3.6 V6, after how many years?

That's what's ahead for the Gen-5 SBC...

While I agree the Bosch ECM will be difficult to get into and start tuning, with time and resources it will be fully open. The LLT's biggest draw back is it's a small market compared to the V8 world. Some people have decided to chase it which has brought the limited tuning that exists today, but if ever aftermarket company were chomping at the bit to get into it it would be a completely different story.

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Originally Posted by blaksabb (Post 7616)

I agree completely. While it will be a struggle relearning everything with a new architecture AND programming strategy, it's not impossible.

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Originally Posted by mws444 (Post 7838)

I don't agree with this. an LS2 is 10.9:1, ls3 is 10.8 or 10.7 depending on where you grab your info from. The new 5.0 coyote is 11:1 as well. All of these responed tremendously well to boost with little to no change in durability if tuned properly.

The biggest draw back will be the fuel system. Increasing output from a mechanical system is not going to be easy. There will be "easy" fixes that work once the limit is reached. Things like methanol injection would work to a degree while still being safe. My fear will be that someone will decide to "add" traditional injectors and a stand alone fuel system to fix any limitations. These technically work, but are notoriously inconsistent.

Again, given time, everything will work out just fine. The aftermarket will develop high output mechanical pumps, and larger injector nozzles. Also, GM is not going to weaken the engine compared to an LS series. They will concentrate on NVH improvements. Typically this means to add material either in quantity, or quality to an engine block, crank, and rods. By doing so, it makes it stronger. Note the crankshafts all use an 8-bolt design for the flywheel compared to a traditional (besides LSA and LS9) 6-bolt.

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Originally Posted by andy@livernois (Post 8243)

The LLT's biggest draw back is it's a small market compared to the V8 world. Some people have decided to chase it which has brought the limited tuning that exists today, but if every aftermarket company were chomping at the bit to get into it, it would be a completely different story.

There's FAR more V6 Camaros, out there, than there are BOSS/Shelby/GT-R examples, yet the FACT remains myriad "attempts" and "promises" have come up short...be they n/a or boosted. From emporiums with stellar efforts on most other ECMs.

Getting into DI applications with their extremely high fuel pressures requires very precise calibrations, NOT "good enough" piggyback apps...and for those to be accomplished requires direct OEM/Tier "support".

Stay tuned...

They will use this as an excuse to charge outrageous prices

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Originally Posted by mikeyg36 (Post 8538)

They will use this as an excuse to charge outrageous prices

I would like to say :nono:

But I'm sure it:sad:

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Originally Posted by GaBoy25 (Post 8623)

I would like to say :nono:

But I'm sure it:sad:

I can see it now... $800 cold air intakes, because they were "specially designed" for direct injection. :lol:

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Originally Posted by mikeyg36 (Post 8735)

I can see it now... $800 cold air intakes, because they were "specially designed" for direct injection. :lol:

:lalala:

So true